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George W. Fails Questions Quiz
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Fred Dawson - 05:15 am PST - Nov 5, 1999
Diploney--Insincere words of respect and friendship spoken by politicians and world leaders of one another.

Here is the incident. Now is it fair to expect a presidential candidate to know the names of the rulers of countries in the news and to have a good grasp of what's happening there? Or...?

Here's what BartCop has to say about it:

These days, the president has so much information and so many advisors it would be hard for even a son-of-a-butch to do too much damage.

Butt,

butt,

butt, you just know if they'd asked Clinton those same four questions,

Clinton would've given their names, their wives' names, their children's names,

he'd ask if Lee Suk Toe had recovered from his sprained ankle, he'd ask if Muhhul Eh-Ujah's mother's gall-bladder operation was successful,

he'd recall that Abbe Con Dabbe could never snag a cab in Cairo.

That's why Clinton is the best we've ever seen. (Well, that, and the economy, the crime rate, teen pregnancy, interest rates, etc etc etc)

ha ha

I saw a mini-Clinton interview on Fox News tonight. Some ditto-monkey tried to put Clinton in a box.

ha ha

Bill Clinton can answer ambush questions so much better than Lanny Davis, James Carville, Paul Begala, BartCop and Bob Dylan combined.

Sidebar: Have you ever seen the interview, must be from 1965 or so, Bob Dylan was just getting noticed and he held a press conference. Some ditto-monkey reporter asked Bob Dylan, on camera, "How many poets are there like you in America?"

Dylan thought for a second, and asked, "How many like me?"

The reporter shouted, "Yeah."

Dylan looked up in the air to the left, and he thought for a second and he said, "One hundred and sixty two."

ha ha

Go, Bob Dylan!! Fuck the Press!

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I know how I would have answered the questions if I'd been in Bush's place: "I don't know now but if I'm president when these or any other countries are exploding A-bombs, having coups, or are accused of terrorism, you can bet I'll find out all I can about their leaders and their countries' backgrounds before I go make critical decisions."
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"I don't know now but if I'm president when these or any other countries are exploding A-bombs, having coups, or are accused of terrorism, you can bet I'll find out all I can about their leaders and their countries' backgrounds before I go make critical decisions."

If I have time..........

Bush isn't qualified for the job.
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Cheap shot, lefties...kudos. Helps, just a little bitty bitty bit to distract from the Alpha Gore business.

Be careful overplaying the hand, though--remember Hatfield.
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TLB-in-MN - 06:00 am PST - Nov 5, 1999  - #5 of 345

So Klepper, can you tell us if Shrubya has a foreign policy?

Please explain for us why he gets flustered under the viciously tough questioning of sixth-graders, while Bill Clinton and Al Gore can go toe-to-toe with the heads of factions that have been at war for centuries.

We're waaaaaiting....
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While we wait for Klepper to tell us about Dubya's foreign policy (the only known element of which, as reported last month in the WSJ, being a willingness, with Chris (Cox Report) Cox's blessing, to RELAX controls on high-tech exports to China), here's some links to scan - and another test Dubya probably would flunk.

See <> for the scoop on people so scary, Cthulhu himself would get the wind put up him just THINKING about them.

And while you're at it, take this fun quiz:

<members.aol.com/fszamazon/test.htm>
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He is qualified for them. Shrub is "PERFECT" for whackos. The number one Hypocrite in the country. Failures and short-comings a plenty. A failed education, a failed personal life, drugs & booze, if it moves - it is executed, but his stupidity is under-whelming - and they love that - they can identify with it - he is perfect for them -

He ain't got much - but he's got his Daddy's name.
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Wasn't it James Carville who said that the closest G.W. Bush has ever come to foreign policy is when he bellied up to a bar in Laredo and ordered a pitcher of margaritas? How true...
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I just went to a Bob Dylan concert, and in the last couple of days have been re-reading a great bio of him called "No Direction Home." He truly was (and probably still is) great at giving clueless reporters a hard time. There is a scene in the documentary "Don't Look Back" where some guy from Time or Newsweek is asking him questions. Dylan just goes for the jugular, telling the guy that Time and Newsweek are basically full of crap and why don't they tell the truth. I can't recall the exact words, but it is really a hoot and definitely worth checking out.
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C.B. Hagman - 07:12 am PST - Nov 5, 1999  - #10 of 345
Actually, when you get right down to it, Bob Jones University and John Ashcroft have shown greater hostility to Catholicism than either James Hormel or the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence have.

You know, while this doesn't nearly measure up to Bob Dylan, the whole George W. Bush fails foreign policy quiz has me thinking of a recent hit by Smash Mouth. It has the following lyric:

"Somebody once told me the world was going to roll me/I ain't the sharpest tool in the shed."

Yes, yes, I know foreign policy is confusing, that our media doesn't cover it extensively enough (To get the international news, I used to watch the Journal and the National on Canadian TV while I was in Buffalo), and that GWB has been too busy running Texas. However, if you're applying for the highest executive office in the land, to be the leader of the free world, and all that fine stuff, you'd better be on the ball!
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Here is Clinton's response, in which he does not take a cheap shot at g dumbya, as he was invited to do. Glad we have a President who can be Presidential even if the leading Repug money monger cannot:

Clinton, in the interview aboard Air Force One as he flew to Arkansas, told ABC: "I think as a presidential candidate for the main trouble spots of the world, he should and probably will pick up those (names).''

"But the most important thing is do you have a clear idea of what the world should look like and what America's policies ought to be in those areas and so that's what I would say,'' Clinton added.

<www.foxnews.com/js_index.sml?content=/news/national/1105/d_rt_1105_31.sml>
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Virtual Fantasy Sharing:

Would it not have been delicious to be present as a fly on the wall of each of the Presidential candidates campaign offices last night as it dawned on each of the "smart guys" that they too did not know any or most of the answers to the quiz and wondered who in their organization did know the correct answer??

And the panic of whether they could get the correct data to their candidate before some smartass reporter got to him?? HeHeHeHe

I'll bet the search engines have done yeoman duty on the questions about Chechnya, Taiwan, Pakistan and India since last night, neh?

Probably only Gore and PukeCannon could have come up with correct data before being briefed, but I would dearly have loved to hear Bradley deal with that set of questions in place of g dumbya. Would have been much as Clinton stated in his response, IMO.
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I can't imagine Stupid Shrub preparing for debaits - O.K. Gorge, Alabama, Alaska and Arkansas these are states of the United States - Albania is a country in S.E. Europe - and there is no "ese" when speaking of the Albanians. Shrub getting testy and confused, head hurting - what is this 50 questions, how many damn letters are there in the alpha thing - We think there are over 20 letters in that alpha thing Gorge - and ya gotta do this or figure out a way to sneak out of the debates - give me the phone; Hello Daddy!
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JosieJ - 07:56 am PST - Nov 5, 1999  - #14 of 345
Enough alcohol will raise the Bonehead Quotient in just about any group of people. (Courtesy of Christine Edgar)

Another Link

I'm not gonna fault Bush for not knowing to begin with, just for failing to study up. India and Pakistan are saber-rattling with nukes; India elects a new gov't and Pakistan has a coup and he doesn't know the main players?

You just know that no other candidate would have been able to get away with Bush's lame answers without a severe drubbing (which they would deserve).
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Shrub said earlier; I don't know much about culture, referring to Books, Plays and the Ballet, but I will hire a culture expert to advise me. Who's he gonna hire Rush Limaugh. If Dan Quayle said something like that, the media slugs would have had a field day.
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Shrub said earlier; I don't know much about culture, referring to Books, Plays and the Ballet, but I will hire a culture expert to advise me. Who's he gonna hire -- Rush Limbaugh? If Dan Quayle said something like that, the media slugs would have had a field day.

No, no, no, Jim. My close personal friend Karl Rove tells me that Bill Bennett and Laura Schlessinger are on tap to advise on matters cultural; Rush Limbaugh will assist in directing foreign policy.
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Isn't it odd that the interview was so short, only four questions. Or is it that, the only portion of the interview that the biased liberal press could jump on was those four questions, so that is all that they reported from the interview.
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I feel relieved and safe. Of course I'm moving to Lithuania - a place none of them even knows exists.
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From one maroon to another - how many questions do you think Stupid could answer - if there were 10 questions, he would have gone 1 for 10.
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Ferguson Foont - 08:38 am PST - Nov 5, 1999  - #20 of 345
Republicans whine and Republicans bitch: "Our rich are too poor, and our poor are too rich!"

Jim Coil, I believe that you perhaps should reconsider emigrating to Lithuania. I mean, don't you agree with George W. Bush that it might be better to leave Lithuania to the Lithuanites?

George W. Bush will duck all debates, of this I am confident. He HAS to, because if his cluelessness is revealed to a wider public his candidacy is, for all intents and purposes, over no matter how much money he throws at it.

During the primaries he might get away for awhile with totally lame excuses for avoiding the public exposure of his ignorance that would certainly result from a debate, like wishing to watch while his wife receives some trivial accolade. His handlers will have to be more clever if he becomes the Republican nominee, however.

What I predict they will do to avoid the League of Women Voters sponsored debates will be to make outrageous demands on the organizers, like the privilege of pre-screening, or perhaps even dictating, the questions and/or the right to hand-pick the entire audience. When these demands are refused the Bush Leaguers will then claim that it is Al Gore who is ducking the debates by his unreasonable refusal to concede these points.

And people like Klepto and Mad Gregor will buy it.
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Isn't it odd that the interview was so short, only four questions. Or is it that, the only portion of the interview that the biased liberal press could jump on was those four questions, so that is all that they reported from the interview.

Was the interview in which Bill Clinton said "I never inhaled" a one-question interview, Ronnie Mac? Or is it that the only portion of the interview that the biased conservative press could jump on was that one question, so that is all that they reported from the interview?
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The point is G. Dumbya is asking the American electorate to put him in charge of our foreign policy.

The reporter asked about those four areas because they are today's pre-eminent hot spots in the world. Therefore, major concerns for our foreign policy.

I couldn't have answered the questions but then I'm not asking the citizenry to put me in charge of such concerns.

And if Dumbya is elected, who will be charge of such concerns? That worries me no end.

EG
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It still goes back to the professional preparation of planning to run for President - and just about every candidate in both parties has done something constructive to prepare - not the least of which is international travel - all the serious candidates visit foreign countries for educational purposes - except Shrub, trying to crash take a course on common sense now - visited one little cafe, just a little south of the border (song). The man is too stupid to be President - but he is bright enough to be guvanor of Texass.
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TLB-in-MN - 10:28 am PST - Nov 5, 1999  - #24 of 345

Once again, Fergy gets it right on the money:

George W. Bush will duck all debates, of this I am confident. He HAS to, because if his cluelessness is revealed to a wider public his candidacy is, for all intents and purposes, over no matter how much money he throws at it.

When even grade-school kids throw him for a loop, you KNOW he's in trouble.

Meanwhile, Big Al goes and teaches - what else? - a CIVICS class for a day, and the kids LOVE him.

Fergy, I'd bet money that Big Al could correctly identify the seven classical logical fallacies.

What I predict they will do to avoid the League of Women Voters sponsored debates will be to make outrageous demands on the organizers, like the privilege of pre-screening, or perhaps even dictating, the questions and/or the right to hand-pick the entire audience. When these demands are refused the Bush Leaguers will then claim that it is Al Gore who is ducking the debates by his unreasonable refusal to concede these points.

Mark these words, everyone.

Revisit them in a few months, and see if Shrub's handlers didn't try to do exactly that.

My God, inbred strychnine-drinking snake handlers have more knowledge of the world than George W. Bush.

And people like Klepto and Mad Gregor will buy it.

Of course.
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Steve M.

"Was the interview in which Bill Clinton said "I never inhaled" a one-question interview, Ronnie Mac?"

I believe that the "I never inhaled" answer was given in a televised interview that covered many subjects. The answer was jumped on because it was such an obvious lie. The public, however, had the benefit of seeing the whole interview, not just that one question.

Ferguson, you seem to be off to a rather mean start today. Unemployment check late again?
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The Reporter was known for asking questions like this....GW should have been prepared....Somebody dropped the ball.....

But then again he has so much money, maybe he thinks he can just buy his way in.
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Here's a good quote from Jamie Rubin, the State Department spokesman. The press corps were laughing and asking him to update us all on the heads of state:

"But I think it's all-important for all of us to carry our cheat sheets around, lest someone ask unfair questions about every potential prime minister and president throughout the world."

LOL for the press corps at State.
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Food Stamp - 11:27 am PST - Nov 5, 1999  - #28 of 345
Okay, then.

I watched the ambush interview of Bush by the Democrat reporter.

What impressed me was that the Bush people knew this reporter was a staunch left-winger and has a reputation for unethical ambush interviews of Republicans. They sent Bush in anyway knowing what would happen. I can only wonder if it is their way of giving him some "trial by fire".

None of the political talking heads (left or right) were able to answer the same questions on television this morning. Neither Bill Clinton nor anyone in his administration asked on TV was able to answer the questions (depth varied by foreign experience). Bush could have been a little more tactful, though. I felt like he revealed a kind of mean streak by enjoying the snapping at a "little" man.

I consider myself a middleperson, politically. I like some Republican stances and policies, but I think the Republicans could be characterized as a cross between Howdy Doody and Mr. Rogers, with one foot still stuck in the mud of the 50's. I mostly like Democratic stances and polices, but dislike the pervasive: "Leave my kids alone, they can do anything they want. By the way, who's going to pay for these kids anyway?" I also think Clinton is a liar and a cheater who didn't have the ethics to resign (...after which the Democrats should have taken out their own trash).

So, from that stance, the feeling that rose in me while watching the ambush interview was that the left-wingers were already, a year away from the election, starting the pouting, crybaby stuff we saw from the Republicans after Clinton was elected and then said, "my fingers were crossed behind my back."

I think it is unseemly for the left-wingers to enlist these obvious ambush tactics. We know Americans don't like cheat attacks and piling on (Clinton impeachment). I think the Democrats should stay on the high road they took during the Clinton impeachment. It worked very well for them and impressed America. Shooting from the gutter will be recognized as exactly that.
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Food Stamp 11/5/99 11:27am

Pardon me? Is this what they did on camera?

None of the political talking heads (left or right) were able to answer the same questions on television this morning.

If that is what they projected it was a total setup. By the time anyone went on camera they had carefully reviewed the answers to each of those questions and had them all avaialble on computer or teleprompter.

First thing I did after reading it this morning was go to MetaCrawler and get a nice little blurb about each of the four. So did every journalist, staff person and clerk in the communications business, who were remotely involved.

What you saw (if you saw it) was spin, pure and simple.
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CNN played the interview big this morning. I could hardly believe my eyes that the media would show negative coverage of GW, who thus far they've treated with kid gloves.

I know the interviewer has a reputation as a tough political questioner, but where did anyone read that he's a left-winger. From what I've read, he can deal it out to both sides.

I'm not a cracker jack on foreign policy (too busy reading about domestic politics recently), but even I knew more than GW about Pakistan. Where has he been for the last month? Locked in a closet with no TV or radio? The military overthrow was a big news story; and GW didn't even seen to know that the General came to power via a military coup, not a free election. The same is true with India. Has he failed to notice that in the last year both India and Pakistan have tested nuclear weapons; that they are already fighting a war over Kashmir? That the newly elected prime minister, was re-elected, so he's been in power for some time, but this election was particularly important because the Hindus gained a majority? Sheeesh!!! And this guy wants me to believe he's presidential material???? Give me a break!!

I'm quite sure Clinton could have answered the four questions correctly, as could Gore. They're both known as policy wonks. Maybe being a wonk isn't so bad in a 'leader of the free world.'
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Muel - 12:15 pm PST - Nov 5, 1999  - #31 of 345
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.... unless you're a masochist.

I'm surprised nobody's commented on this, which reveals that utter lack of priorities or substance by conservatives:

(from kl Regan):

Cheap shot, lefties...kudos. Helps, just a little bitty bitty bit to distract from the Alpha Gore business.

So, we should be more concerned with whether a candidate is an "alpha" or "beta" male, or which image he projects, than with whether he has knowledge of world leaders and issues?

ROFLMFAO!!!
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Oh, let me answer myself before she does:

"Muel, if you can't post anything intelligent, at least post something interesting."
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More whacko comedy from Food Stamp - buy brain food with those food stamps instead of junk food -

"unethical ambush interviews" that's a hoot from a "middle roader", up next; Starr is a decent nice guy and not a porn pervert.

Lest we forget, a 5th grader ambushed Stupid with a simple question.

The man is unarmed - no ambush required.
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His advisors should have prepped him....maybe they tried, but this is an old device, used in election after election, and GWB should have known more.
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A most embarrassing moment for Shrub. He could have finessed himself out of this in any number of ways--skipping the names and outlining the respective scenarios-- but he treated it like a quiz, and just kept coming back for more punishment.

Then he endorses the military takeover in Pakistan.

But he really killed himself when he asked the interviewer if he could name the foreign minister of Mexico.

"No, but I'm not running for President."

Ouch, that one hurt. But when you run around the country bragging about all the C's you got in school, expect to be scorched from time to time.
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TLB-in-MN - 01:05 pm PST - Nov 5, 1999  - #36 of 345

Speaking of his "C"s... here's what TJ Walker (of <www.tjwalker.com>) had to say about them:

I now feel sorry for George W. Bush, for he is truly a victim of an ill conceived, "liberal" attempt at social engineering. Thanks to the New Yorker, we now know that Bush was admitted to Yale University with a mere 1200 on his SATs, an impossibility for any high school student who isn't subjected to some patronizing affirmative action scheme. We also know that he got into the Harvard Business School with a "C" average in college. That's not affirmative action, that's more like "someone must have had nude photos of the Dean with farm animals" in order for Bush to been admitted to a program that routinely denies admission to thousands of straight "A" students per year.

The problem with affirmative action, as its conservative opponents have told us and I know finally understand, is that it sets up unreasonable expectations for everyone involved. Imagine, if you were a Texas oil millionaire in the early 1970's and a man from a good family with degrees from Yale and the Harvard Business School asked you to invest millions in a business. Of course you would assume he was bright enough to know how to make money. Bush did this repeatedly, losing millions every time for his investors.

This was so unfair to Bush, who has been given unreasonable career expectations given his aptitude. If it weren't for the evil, socialistic affirmative action program that placed Bush in a world he should have never been, he could have thrived.

Given Bush's average aptitude and winning personality he could have gone to Texas A&M University and possibly graduated with a B or B+ average. Then, he could have gone onto a successful career as a fertilizer salesman. Instead, he was unwittingly forced into a series of oil schemes that were far beyond his talents, all of which lost fortunes.

Bush was not the only victim here. These Texas millionaires were misled. And, as is the case of so many liberal do-gooder schemes, the unintended consequences were even more damaging to society.

These Texas fat cats now likely look at all white men with greater scrutiny and even cynicism. Even white men like me must pay for the crimes committed by the relatively few, like Bush, who have placed in positions far above their abilities.

Bush's numerous financial failures obviously took a toll on his self-esteem. Now we know the real reason he drank himself silly until his 40th birthday; he knew he was a fraud.

No wonder Bush refuses to debate his Republican opponents. He is consumed with self-doubt and doesn't want to expose himself as the meritless, affirmative action case he knows himself to be.

How many more times can he use "is" in a sentence that needs an "are" before even his own daughters laugh at him at the dinner table? Society owes Bush a huge apology for forcing him into a life that he was not meant for.

Dear George, we are sorry. We realize our mistake. You are now free to quit the presidential race, resign your governorship and take that sales job at Archer Daniels Midland. Good luck.

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Here's what Shrub's foreign-policy advisors were probably telling him today.
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Yeah, I loved the part about whether the reporter knew who the Foreign Minister of Mexico was. I bet Dubya was thinking, "Oh boy, I got him now." Of course, the only reason Dubya would know the Mexican Foreign Minister's name is because he's the governor of the state with the longest border to Mexico.
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Andy F - 02:09 pm PST - Nov 5, 1999  - #39 of 345
Gore 50,996,064 votes - Bush 50,456,167 votes - Difference: Gore +539,897 votes.

The worst thing W did was to praise the coup in Pakistan for bringing "stability". This is like praising Mussolini for making the trains run on time.

The former President of Pakistan may have been unpopular, but dictatorships are inherently UNSTABLE. The best thing that could have been done to bring greater stability was to wait for the next election and let the Pakistani people vote the guy out.

The fact that W thinks dictatorships bring stability says a lot about him and the attitude he will bring if he become President of OUR country.
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They should have asked Bush about the nuclear situation in Pakistan and India and whether he agrees with many folks in the CIA that we should provide both countries with technology to accurately spot nuclear launches.

(The CIA argues this because right now it would be easy for one country or the other to mistakenly think a missile had been launched. A jet straying over the other country could do it. A factory disaster such as the one at Union Carbide at Bhopal could be mistaken for a nuclear attack.)
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If Bush did NOT know the foreign minister of a country with which his state shares a huge border, then it would be time to put him in the same class as Dan Quayle.
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Wonder when Daddy Shrub will threaten to sue the reporter and the paper. There ought to be limits to freedoms, ya know.
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A brilliant satire on the whole thing.
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Back in May 1998 when India and Pakistan conducted their nuclear tests, President Clinton made numerous remarks that exhibited a detailed understanding of the psychology of the leaders of the two countries. He was ridiculed by the adulterer, George Will, for talking about India's "wounded inner child".

Fortunately for the world, President Clinton was more interested in defusing a potential nuclear war the earning browine points from the adulterous George Will.

While the US media may shrug off Shrub's stupidity, the foreign media is not. Dated Link
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Steve M. - 02:50 pm PST - Nov 5, 1999  - #45 of 345
2/14: The Village Voice names OutKast's "Stankonia," featuring "B.O.B. (Bombs Over Baghdad)," album of the year. 2/16: George W. Bush, desperate to prove he's cooler than Bill Clinton, drops bombs near Baghdad. Coincidence?

The worst thing W did was to praise the coup in Pakistan for bringing "stability".

As Al Gore was quick to point out.

But wait, folks! Time magazine, continuing its pro-GOP spin (mere days after Naomigate), has decided for us that Shrub's terrifying ignorance just doesn't matter! Even though the magazine points out,

perhaps more alarmingly, that Bush's foreign policy adviser Joel Shinn hadn't known all four answers

The most alarming thing about this is that we're in a situation I never thought would really be possible, even in my bleakest moments: in effect, Dan Quayle is now the front-runner in the race for the White House. Dig your fallout shelters now!
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Oh, are we electing a President, or a Presidency by Committee of Special Advisors??

I'm sure the comments from our allies and enemies abroad are going to be rather fulsome over this GW Quiz flunk. Since we are the strongest of the nations in the free world, they take our elections and our potential leaders very seriously.And I would imagine they're chewing on their fingernails right now over the responses of the candidate leading in the polls.
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Wow, Food Stamp! You sure you ain't working as a Bush spinmeister?

Food Stamp - 11:27am Nov 5, 1999 PST (# 28 of 46) Okay, then!

I watched the ambush interview of Bush by the Democrat reporter.

So a tough bunch of questions is a politically motivated 'ambush'?

What impressed me was that the Bush people knew this reporter was a staunch left-winger and has a reputation for unethical ambush interviews of Republicans. They sent Bush in anyway knowing what would happen. I can only wonder if it is their way of giving him some "trial by fire".

Attack the questioner. Make the whole embarrassing episode look like it was planned by the Bush handlers. Suuuure. With friends like that, ......

None of the political talking heads (left or right) were able to answer the same questions on television this morning. Neither Bill Clinton nor anyone in his administration asked on TV was able to answer the questions (depth varied by foreign experience). Bush could have been a little more tactful, though. I felt like he revealed a kind of mean streak by enjoying the snapping at a "little" man.

He also revealed his ignorance of foreign affairs. Had this been the first example of this, people could shrug it off- after all the questions could be considered tough. But it's not, which indicates to me that he doesn't care to make the effort to learn. In addition, by not being able to find an easy 'out' to this line of questioning he exhibits a total lack of ability to think on his feet. He'd better stay out of debates and keep to the script his handlers have written for him.
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Steve M. - 03:44 pm PST - Nov 5, 1999  - #48 of 345
2/14: The Village Voice names OutKast's "Stankonia," featuring "B.O.B. (Bombs Over Baghdad)," album of the year. 2/16: George W. Bush, desperate to prove he's cooler than Bill Clinton, drops bombs near Baghdad. Coincidence?

The VRWC spin machine has now gone into overdrive:

Bush Calls Quiz 'Gotcha' Journalism

By CALVIN WOODWARD Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) - Texas Gov. George W. Bush calls it ``gotcha'' journalism - the setup designed to trip him up. The latest episode raises the issue of whether it's fair to ask questions intended to embarrass more than enlighten.

Politicians have been bedeviled in the past by questions on the price of milk, the location of Bosnia, a phantom county in Illinois and why they want to be president. Now Bush has flubbed a mini-quiz revealing he could not name leaders in three of four trouble spots.

While the media are sometimes torn over when it's right to investigate a politician's personal behavior, policy questions are usually a cinch in weighing journalistic ethics: Anything goes.

But Wednesday surprise test by Andy Hiller, political reporter for WHDH-TV in Boston, has some media-watchers wondering if even fact-driven questioning can go too far....

Fact-driven questioning can go too far? You mean asking whether someone who wants a job has the qualifications to do it is unfair?

Give me a fucking break.
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These are the same assholes who thought questions about Clinton's penis were relevant during the 92 and 96 elections.
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Whiny Bushbrat! I imagine the Forbes Ad creators are orgasmic.
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Methinks the media has been bought...heaven help us all.
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Freedom of the press is only for the one who owns a press.

Creepy, ain't it?
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jim coil - 05:26 pm PST - Nov 5, 1999  - #53 of 345
If "it's" in the News; it is either a fabrication, exaggeration, distortion, or bald-face lie. Take your pick.

The fat, the lazy, the losers - media slugs jealous of Hiller, taking orders from their bosses, don't attack our Bush/CIA man.

I've been looking for the abridged Bill of Rights - wonder if Hatfiled has a copy - the one that says; there ought to be limits to freedoms. Republikan felons are allowed to write books after they get out of prison - but not Democrats or anyone who attacks the reich-wing establishment. Hatfield is failed.
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Once again, the point is not whether Dubya knew the name of the leader of Chechnya. The point is that the answers he did give left the impression of not only cluelessness but I-don't-care-and-why-should-I?

Just the comment about a military coup bringing stability should be enough to disqualify the man for President (thanks to whoever it was who brought up the comparison to praising Musollini for keeping the trains running on time).

I just caught a few minutes of Hardball before I came on and the panel was basically universal in saying that the questions were not innapropriate and that he should have been able to answer them better. Not necessarily that he should have known the specific answers but that he should have been able to use the questions as an opportunity to demonstrate his knowledge of the particular affairs (Checnya, China/Taiwan, India/Pakistan). It was on that that he failed.

AP:

Politicians have been bedeviled in the past by questions on the price of milk, the location of Bosnia, a phantom county in Illinois and why they want to be president. Now Bush has flubbed a mini-quiz revealing he could not name leaders in three of four trouble spots.

Excuse me, but what is wrong with asking a candidate why he wants the office? In fact, I consider that probably one of the most important questions any candidate should be able to answer. Bob Dole failed spectacularly on this in 1996 when his answered appeared, for all intents and purposes, to be "because it's my turn."

Why does Dubya want to be President?
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How long can the media cover for this moron?

My God, you'd think that the brighter GOP waterboys and girls in the Fourth Estate would have realized now what Matt Drudge apparently has: that the sooner Shrub is taken out of the race, the better off the Republican Party will be.

But NOOOOOOOO.

This will only accelerate the rush to online sources like the Consortium and the Daily Howler and Salon and Online Journal. SOMEBODY has to fill the hard-news vacuum!
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TLB-in-MN - 06:00 pm PST - Nov 5, 1999  - #56 of 345

From Wonder Who's link - The Hindu newspaper:

Bush Jr.'s pat for Musharraf

By Sridhar Krishnaswami

WASHINGTON, NOV. 5. The Pakistani military leader, Gen. Parvez Musharraf, may not exactly like the way the Republican frontrunner referred to him but must be quite flattered by Mr. George W Bush's ``assessment'' of the coup that he pulled off recently.

``The new Pakistani General, he's just been elected - not elected, this guy took over office. It appears this guy is going to bring stability to the country and I think that's good news for the sub-continent,'' the Texas Governor said in a television interview in his State.

Mr. Bush was asked to name the top leader in power in three countries and a Russian Republic undergoing serious trouble in the recent past. He was asked to name the leaders of Taiwan, India and Pakistan. The Texas Governor failed to answer three out of the four, and came away apparently partly correct on the fourth - he had the ``Lee'' part of Mr. Lee Teng-hui of Taiwan correct.

Mr. Bush could not name the Pakistani General who seized power and instead referred to him as ``this guy'', but at the same time believed that the coup had brought forth ``stability'' to Pakistan, a perception strongly disputed from within the Clinton administration and outside.

Mr. Bush's spokesman, arguing that the person running for President was seeking to be the leader of the free world and not a jeopardy contestant - a television gameshow - said that Mr. Bush was not endorsing the coup but was stating his interpretation of events as they stand.

Mr. Bush's Communications Director, Ms. Karen Hughes said Gen. Musharraf had said that he was committed to reinstating democratically elected government and he seems to have brought stability to a country that had been in turmoil and that ``Governor Bush hopes he's committed to keeping that promise''.

Mr. Bush's ``performance'' in an impromptu foreign affairs quiz is indicative of where the focus is on the national campaigns right now which is pretty much skewed towards domestic issues and problems.

Even if the leading Republican candidate had all the ``right'' foreign policy advisors and staff, including perhaps some talking to him on the Indian sub-continent, the bottom line is how much time the candidate is willing to spend listening to what is being said on foreign affairs.

And even his own foreign-policy advisor admitted that he himself couldn't answer those four questions.

Not only is Shrub ignorant, but so are his handlers.
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The good news is that GW's interview has been broadcast by outlets like CNN and other cable news networks, who have re-broadcast his interview live, so viewers can draw their own conclusions. These live, unedited broadcasts can't help Bush.. And more of those broadcasts are coming.
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If Shrub goes down big-time, will all the Repubican faithful(i.e. the non-insiders, rich wannabe's) be really pissed that they got conned into backing such a jerk?
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Chuck Meyer - 06:18 pm PST - Nov 5, 1999  - #59 of 345
"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imginary"--Mencken

On MSNBC tonight, Paul Begala suggested that Bush had been briefed on such things, was warned he could face this kind of question-test, but chose instead, in the words of Begala, to 'let it go in one ear and out the other.'

The distance between the Governor's ears is something akin to the Holland Tunnel.

Chris Anderson

the only reason Dubya would know the Mexican Foreign Minister's name is because he's the governor of the state with the longest border to Mexico.

And of course Bush never did offer the name of the foreign minister, so lets not give him too much credit on this one:)

He gets a half-point for replying (guessing?) "Lee" on Taiwan.

If only the Guv had been asked the President of Argentina; he and daddy played golf with him in Austin a few months back, and I'm damn sure he could remember that far back.
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I think the only reason he lucked out and guessed the "Lee" is that he must have been thinking of the name of the Chinese Restaurant, "Lee Ho Fung's", referenced in that brilliant policy document, Warren Zevon's Werewolves of London.

Meanwhile, David Corn chimes in. He feels, rightly, that the scariest thing about this affair is not so much that Shrub is clueless and unable to even pull off a flip Reaganesque comment, but that his advisors are just as clueless as he is, if not more so:

<www.salon.com/news/feature/1999/11/05/bush/index.html>
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The Guv, it would seem, has two choices here:

A....study up on his international affairs

B...fire his international advisors.

Which one do YOU think he'll choose?
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I'm still in shock that Chris Matthews of Hardball actively DISSED him over this.

How long will it take for the GOP to realize that they can't keep even their own bought-and-paid-for media prosties silent over Shrub's boobery forever?
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Cheap shot, lefties

You should know, kl.
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Audrey M. Regan - 07:07 pm PST - Nov 5, 1999  - #64 of 345

Hmm, I wonder if George Bush, Jr. knows who the Prime Minister of Canada is ... Canada being America's biggest trading partner and all.

I saw the interview. I agree with Geraldine Ferraro who said, "As candidates we all know our weak areas. George should have done some studying and made very sure he couldn't be trapped this way."

BTW, I knew three of the four leaders by name - only because, since my operation, my family bought me subscriptions to everything printed and published on the face of the earth!

Bad one George. Don't let it happen again or your goose is cooked.
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Why waste your time boning up on international news when you can score points back-slapping the Texas school principle who sent a 7th grader to jail for a week for his Halloween essay?

Whenever the Governor has had a bad day on the campaign trail, he can always cheer himself up by flying home and signing another fistfull of death warrants.
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Several points:

1. G.W. should have been much more aware of the who the leaders of the countries that are such international hot points are regardless of his claim of being a 'big picture' guy.

2. Reporter Andy Hiller is allowed not to know information outside of the area of his interview. He is the one asking the questions, not the one trying to show his qualifications to be President. Since G.W. is Governor of Texas and Texas a major border state to Mexico and one of its primary trading partners, I would hope that he knows who the Foreign Minister is.

3. In G.W.'s defense, Hiller, who is a well thought of local political reporter, works for WHDH Channel 7 in Boston, the NBC affiliate. WHDH is owned by Sunbeam Communications of Miami as sleazy a news operation as you would like to meet. They practice tabloid style broadcasting for the attention deficit disorder crowd, heavy on violence, and garish, bloody graphics. Andy Hiller was employed by the previous owners and has managed to survive in this environment when most others have long since departed by adapting his style to theirs.
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Just imagine the Bush-Gore debates.

Bush will be bloodied: The "Blood and Gore" debates! Can't wait!
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I saw some Republican congressman on Hannity & Colmes earlier tonight saying that all that really matters is that Dubya is for a strong defense and that whether he knows the names of certain foreign leaders is irrelevent (not his exact words, but that's the general gist of his comment). In other words, Dubya represents that wing of the GOP (such as Jesse Helms, et. al) that don't consider foreign affairs important because, well, there all just foreigners after all.
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W.W. Dimmitt - 08:23 pm PST - Nov 5, 1999  - #69 of 345
Be compassionate, join FUBAR today! (Faith in Unknown, But Awful, Religions)

This is the third or fourth article in the WP that has been progressivley negative about g dumbya:

Should a presidential candidate be required to know the heads of Pakistan, India, Taiwan and Chechnya? Maybe so, maybe not. This much is certain: The way George W. Bush handled his pop quiz on foreign policy suggests he's still not ready for the tests ahead.

"Wait. Wait. Is this 50 questions?" a flustered Bush asked the Boston television reporter who posed four surprise questions. The Republican front-runner got one name right, admitted he didn't know the other three, and fumbled on the crisis in Pakistan.

And he looked badly doing it, glaring off camera after dressing down the interviewer with a convoluted rebuke – his jaw clenched in anger or frustration.

<www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/19991105/aponline174825_000.htm>
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I believe the Bubble Boy had his bubble burst yesterday.

Do you always consider asking questions of such obvious relevance to our foreign policy to constitute an "ambush," Food Stamp? I guess you consider all unscreened questions where the answer cannot be taught to George W. Bush by rote to be "ambushes." Most people who keep abreast of current events through such highly technical and complex methods as, for example, occasionally reading the major stories in their morning paper could have answered those questions better than did George W. Bush.

This is playing BEAUTIFULLY on TV all over the country, showing Bush's confused face and glassy eyes in a state of utter consternation. I LOVED the Pakistan question, where he answered, "General General General General" (what a GREAT political spot ad that's going to make!) and then proclaimed that the military coup that overturned a democratically elected government provided "stability."

It's been a good day for the good guys.

George W. Bush did not know the name of the leader of the second most populous nation on Earth, for crissakes. Most people who are even cursorily familiar with foreign affairs do.

Chuck Meyer, when George W. Bush begins extemporaneously "outlining the respective scenarios" things get REALLY comical. The guy really has no clue.

But what do you expect from a guy who brags that he doesn't read books but knows people who do?

TLB, I think that perhaps Bush's foreign policy advisors are teaching George W. Bush the international nuances of "See Spot run. Run, Spot, run." You have to start somewhere.

George W. Bush probably knows the name of the Mexican foreign minister because he served as his dope connection.

I now believe what I once thought impossible: There is a candidate for the presidency of the United States who makes Dan Quayle appear intelligent and well-informed by comparison. This is a most alarming turn of events.

Personally I think "Lee" was a lucky guess. If I were to make a guess at a Taiwanese name that's what I'd say.

TLB, this time the media's not covering for him. Like I said up top, I think his bubble is now burst. This is playing prime time big time.

I can't WAIT for Georgie to have a temper tantrum on camera. It is only a matter of time.
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Georgie Dumbja...someone posted this and I just want to practice writing it......Geo. Dumbja
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Catburglar - 11:00 pm PST - Nov 5, 1999  - #72 of 345

His handlers will work all the harder to make sure he has no chance or need to ad lib from now through next November.

You know this boy won't debate. Krijeezies, he wouldn't even chance that Town Hall Meeting.
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Just in case you were wondering if Clinton was up on his world leaders
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If Dumbya won't debate, TAKE IT TO HIM! The more evasive he gets, the more he should be pursued.

McCain should be taking advantage of this right now. It's his chance to PROVE he's not a partisan hack.

I don't think Dumbya will survive the primaries. He's just too weak. Even a same party candidate with kid gloves on will knock him out.

Such a shame! All that good Republican money the death merchants have thrown at Dumbya down the drain. Pity.
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Of course the rabid right will make an issue of that terribly phallic pickle reference he made. ;-)
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Steve M

Dan Quayle is now the front-runner in the race for the White House. Dig your fallout shelters now!

Dan Quayle studied hard to prepare for this election and could probably have answered the questions. I was looking forward to a well-prepared Quayle showing George W Bush up in the primary debates.

Quayle may have suffered a little brain damage when he had that pulmonary embolism (and maybe at birth) but Quayle is still smarter than Bush.

Forget fallout shelters. I read the Indian reaction to the Bush interview in the Hindu newspaper. We're going to die of embarassment.
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Tina Kramer,

The link you posted is to the first positive straight news story about Clinton I've read in a long time.

It showed Clinton in control, funny and smart.

I wonder if the press has been suddenly sobered by the George W Bush performance in Boston.
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George "Dumb-ass" Bush
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W.W. Dimmitt - 05:33 am PST - Nov 6, 1999  - #79 of 345
Be compassionate, join FUBAR today! (Faith in Unknown, But Awful, Religions)

The media has picked up the story big time and they are maintaining the attitude that was struck yesterday, maybe becoming a little more negative, IMO.

In the TV interview aired this week, a flustered and clearly angered Bush could not name the leaders of Chechnya, India and Pakistan.

They are Aslan Maskhadov of Chechnya, Atal Bihari Vajpayee of India and Gen. Pervaiz Musharraf of Pakistan. Bush partially named the leader of Taiwan, president Lee Teng-hui, calling him only ``Lee.''

The governor also appeared to endorse the recent military coup in Pakistan, calling it ``good news for the subcontinent.''

Bush officials said later that he opposes the overthrow of a democratically elected government, but believes the military coup in Pakistan last month has brought stability to South Asia.

<www.bostonherald.com/bostonherald/nat/bush11061999.htm>

But I still wonder what the overall effect will be. The polls from this weekend should be very interesting regarding the reaction of the public. g dumbya has gotten tremendous coverage out of this.

Right now his headline count is 74 compared to 22 for Gore and 18 for Bradley. He is getting nearly double their combined coverage today. I sure hope the negative interpretations are coming through to the readership and the viewership.

Do people who watch TV think that the presentation there has been as negative as it has been in print?
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He's not doing real well in the Pakistani press either.

Dated Link

You are in real trouble when you need the Sunday pundits and the New York Times to prevent you from becoming a global object of ridicule.
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I love this thread! It goes right to the heart (stone cold), evil fraud that is G.W. Bush. Compassionate conservatism - please don't kill me, there ought to be limits to freedoms - and the pathetic state of the State of Texas. From the gleeful executions of 1/3 of all of the U.S. executions to Houston taking over the number one slot as the most pollutted city - to the nations only rising state of drug usage to the pathetic social and education decline, all led by one thoroughly stupid jerk - G.W. Bush - a hypocrite on the Newt level.
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What just makes me roll the floor in delighted peals of laughter is the delicious irony! Dubya chose this sort of forum (check ted zep's tagline quoting Poppy telling Larry King that it would be better for Jr. to have one-on-one interviews with someone like Larry rather than debate his competitors?) so he could avoid looking like a dummy when measured against the rest in the field! This interview was supposed to be a showcase for him! And please, you mean to tell me that his advisors didn't shop him to what they thought would be the most "malleable" outlet? ROFLMAO!
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Fred Dawson - 08:08 am PST - Nov 6, 1999  - #83 of 345
Diploney--Insincere words of respect and friendship spoken by politicians and world leaders of one another.

As the movie critics put it, this story has legs. Whatever the biases of the media, the news folk quickly recognized that this gaffe connects with viewers. GW has done what Quayle did spelling 'potatoe', made himself look foolish as well as uninformed. Didn't Bush get any assertiveness training working up to where he is now, and learn how to answer "I don't know" in a way that minimizes the damages? Did he have to show how limited his knowledge was about Pakistan? Or suggest his correct answer on Taiwan was not backed by a lot of knowledge, like what the rest of Lee's name was? Did he get this name because it had fewer syllables than the others and is common in this country? People can forgive a lack of knowledge--they're much harder on looking inept.
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Larry asked, in his most patronizing tone, "So how does it feel to know that you might be the father of two future presidents?"

Bush pere: "Jeb's goo', Jeb's goo'!"

Right Daddy-o, is that all you had to say about the Shrub at those damn fundraisers to get their checkbooks waving like flags?????
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Upthread...

Why does Dubya want to be President? BINGO!

I don't think in the darkness of his lonely room GWB actually has an answer, and it finally is starting to show.

What are the odds if you cornered him, pumped him full of Rebel Yell & Pepsi, and asked him, he would level with you:

"Given my druthers, which my father has never let me had, I'd be running the Texas Rangers, gladhanding the heavy-hitters who own luxury boxes, doing a lot of hunting, and be happy for the first time in my life..."

I used to despise the man -- now I only pity him.
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He was asked that question a few months ago and his answer was, "Because I want to win."

Think about that for a couple seconds.
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Exactly, O Lynx-Eyed One. Circular answer = no answer at all.
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TLB-in-MN - 09:22 am PST - Nov 6, 1999  - #88 of 345

Meanwhile, Bill Clinton shows that he can answer both a complicated math question without using a calculator AND provide the name of the Chechnyan leader simultaneously, within thirty seconds.
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Bush reminds me of that southern idiot that Nixon tried to appoint to the Supreme Court, whose opinions were written in fourth grade English it was discovered.

I think it was Nixon's VP (no brain himself) who conceded that yes, the man was an absolutely mediocre judge, but that was a positive in his favor, since he would represent all the mediocre people in the country who had no representation on the high court.
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G. Harold Carswell. I believe that he was later involved in a typical Republican incident involving a male prostitute, a restroom, and an undercover police officer.
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And while Agnew did indeed support Carswell's appointment, it was Roman Hruska, a waterhead GOP Senator, who made that particular comment.

I'd heard that it was an eight-year-old, not a male prostie. And that the lad wasn't exactly willing to go along with Carswell's blandishments.
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I have always said that Shrub's candidacy would implode because of his cluelessness. Not some deep dark scandal.

The media have always preferred McCain. Because of CFR and because they love the myth of moderate Republicans.

Mark my words, McCain will be beat in part because he is a boor and it will not be possible for the media to conceal this fact.

Kudos to Andy Hiller for breaking with groupthink and making Shrub's cluelessness impossible to ignore.
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Actually, I kinda hope Shrub makes it through the primaries, so that there is a greater chance to put more of his family's dark dealings and CIA Double Life in the spotlight...especially if Pinochet stands trial before the Nov. 2000 elections...

There are questions of International Jurisdiction with regards to Pinochet, I know, but if it's going to happen, I hope some truth comes out, and the fraud that is the Bush family is exposed once and for all...

Too many Americans have this manufactured image of them as the Nice, All-American Family, like they were sealed in a 1950's time capsule and just opened this year...
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Jo Ann Simon - 05:35 pm PST - Nov 6, 1999  - #94 of 345
Free thinker; Independent-minded bitch; Don't even TRY to brainwash me!

I don't want Shrub to win the primary because that will put his money machine too close to orchestrating the next election in his favor. I want him OUT before the primaries, and outed by McCain during the primaries.

I won't vote for McCain, but I see him as the lesser of two evils, and I admire him for bucking against the Republican hardliners on campaign finance reform.

I'm for Gore as the most experienced and capable candidate out there, and I think he would make a great President!
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Agreed on all points, Jo Ann.

Let each party put up it's best man (sorry, they're both male) and let's have it out, money be damned.
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Yes, I have to agree, although I still want the mother exposed...
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Well, I was almost right on almost everything.

Not very good work here.
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Mike Luckovich
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Friedman has a nice bit in the NY Times today:

A Boston TV reporter surprised Republican presidential front-runner George W. Bush last week with a pop quiz on foreign policy that the governor pretty much flunked. He was asked to name the leaders of Taiwan, India, Pakistan and Chechnya, and got only Taiwan right. What was scary about the interview was not that George W. didn't know all the names. It was the Quayle-in-the-headlights look on his face when he was asked for them. If I were the Democrats, I would run commercials over and over again just showing that look on his face. And the voice-over would say: "Here's how George W. looked when he was asked to name the leaders of Taiwan, India, Pakistan and Chechnya. Imagine how he would look if he were asked what to do about them."

Quayle-in-the-headlights--gotta love it!
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jim coil - 08:18 am PST - Nov 7, 1999  - #100 of 345
If "it's" in the News; it is either a fabrication, exaggeration, distortion, or bald-face lie. Take your pick.

From the Ark-Dem Gazette - another funny editorial cartoon - <www.ardemgaz.com/today/edi/>

A goodie.
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I'll say it again.

I still don't believe that GW wants to be president.

It shows.

He acts like someone carrying out a disagreeable task, assigned by his father.

It has its fun moments, but it's a lot of hard work. Much harder than being governor.

"Aw shucks, dad. Do I have to be president?"
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He wants it, all right. He wants it for different reasons than Daddy did -- Daddy wanted to be President because it's the ultimate Boys Club.

Junior wants it because he owes a lot of favor$, and this is a good way to pay them back.

He never expected the Presidency to be hard work -- either in running for it or in being elected to it -- because he's never had to do any hard work in his life.

What you're seeing is not fear of someone who realizes he's in over his head. What you're seeing is resentment that he has to do stuff he doesn't want to do, and know stuff he isn't interested in knowing.
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Catburglar, your last paragragh spoke to me. I think you may have it!
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Jim Coil--

That is the funniest cartoon in Ark-Dem Gaz--please spread it around. It will keep me laughing for a couple of days, at least...
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Shrub defends himself. He's plenty smart! Heh.

<news.excite.com/news/r/991107/11/politics-bush-quiz>
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Mark Sterling - 05:45 pm PST - Nov 7, 1999  - #106 of 345
"We must show courage in a time of blessing by confronting problems instead of passing them on to future generations...we will reduce taxes..." George Bush showing his keen understanding of the national debt in his inaugural address

Well yeehaaw...Bush is plenty smart. How bout them doggies? He knows dem readin' an writin' an rithmatic. Well maybe not dem rithmatic...that un is plenty hard. But he likely got some other fellers to look after that un. I feel right down comfort-able wit that Bush feller now. He might not be no genie-ous but he's darn plenty smart. Gotta watch some of that World Wrastling Fedration now. Bush in 2001!...or whatever!
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That should be his sloga. I is plenty smart.
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I'm dern sur that is his sloga...along wit I'm out to avenge ma poppy!...poppy was dern mad he got beat...Jr. feel mighty bad about it too...so he gone run for President.
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Meanwhile, several people are chuckling away... Ross Perot and Pat Buchanan are chuckling the loudest right now.
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Tina K. re. your #73.

Thank you so much for that link. I had not seen or heard that anywhere before reading it here in your link. That , as if I didn't know and deplore it, tells a lot about the "objective reporting" of the media.
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da Georg Bosh ma not be sutch a sherp fella ba i lick his famlie reel gud adn his Pa is a fern fella yessirree all i care is tha they say the rite things and lemme kip my gun and nat hav to pay so much texes

Bar dun razed a passle of fern yun men
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Muel - 11:23 pm PST - Nov 7, 1999  - #112 of 345
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.... unless you're a masochist.

Ted!

I just saved all my Dumbya jokes from the dumbest candidate thread. If some rightist freak manages to convince Mary Beth to delete it, let's just post them all in here, where they are also topical.
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Yes!!!!

Did you ship them off to Leno?
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Not yet, but soon. I'm being naughty tonight and going back and forth between posting here and doing the final edit of our magazine. It'll keep me up too late, but what the hell... the writing is a blast, but the final editing and proofing is a bitch. I need the diversion.
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Anyone have any goods on Chubya's girlfriends from his partaaaaaaay days? Daddy Bush couldn't have paid them all hush money already, could he? With Flubya's memory lapses, even HE couldn't remember who they all were. Just seems awfully quiet on that subject..almost eerie!! I think we should investigate....
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At least it's only 8:40 there...
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my guess is that Dub-ya's had a lot of drunken black-outs...
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And still has them, judging by his constant "looking at the pretty little winged ladies dancing 6 inches in front of my eyes" look.
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Blaze Diem - 11:41 pm PST - Nov 7, 1999  - #119 of 345
"You've got to love his deep-set simian eyes, with that precambrian glare! " ( Freeman Beckwith , describing UNpresident George Bush) hahhaa

I'm interested in knowing what paper you're working on Mule..I marvel at your wisdom displayed in the fine threads of TT..I'd like to read some of your work...
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Why, thankee sir. Yer presence here is refreshing as well as that of our fine brah, Theodore Zeppelin here.

I don't know if you could find a copy since our distribution is just about 4,000 (but a good audience of Hawaii CEOs and all state govt.).

I'll e-mail you the name of the pub. You won't believe what it is.

Won't put the name up here, because I've had a problem in the past with receiving some not so friendly e-mails at work from the more psycho elements on TT.

I'll send an e-mail from the office this week, but the paper itself is certainly not too exciting; business and economic development stuff, though I throw in as much community and charity stuff as I can get away with.
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Certainly will look forward to it then..Ahh, community and charity, then you are indeed a good man/woman???? no matter...Just keep them jokes comin.Hey Someone has to be the Davids sleuthing the Goliaths of the monopolized Right tilted media... haha..do they REALLY think they can keep shoving heaping helpings of Blubya's idiocies under the rug, without ANYONE wondering what's causing those huge bulges beneath the carpet?...We knew he was a fraud from the beginning..its genetic... I'm off to sleep..its 1:00a.m. here and I have much sleuthing to do tomorrow...Wonder what Carvell's up to lately..
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Don't know if Travis posted this here yet, but what the hey:

<home.earthlink.net/~nubis/CARTOON/burning.html>

Travis, you need to meet BartCop, if you haven't already.
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Joe Knapp - 08:17 am PST - Nov 8, 1999  - #123 of 345

I think it's fair to say that the left-wing media has given W a free ride as well. They all have. Media pundits as a whole are basically football announcers whose jobs depend on convincing viewers not to change channels, even if it's Michigan versus Slippery Rock U. We'll hear that Slippery Rock is much improved, etc. etc. Thus Bush, being the best we've got on the GOP side, is treated with the kid gloves.

That Bush is an incredible lightweight has been obvious from the start. Not to say that lighweights are unelectable. Reagan did it. I just don't think the country is ready for such a step at this point, the economic and strategic situation being so positive. The "well I couldn't answer such questions either" tack appeals to the populist fantasy where every man is a king, at least in our imaginations. If the prez is a dolt, then everyman is that much closer to the top. I just don't think that kind of appeal to the Archie Bunkers out there is a way to electoral success in 2000. It had its place in 1980 perhaps.

But I have to laugh, recalling the emperor's new clothes, when a left-wing pundit like Paglia averts her eyes from Bush's prima facie vacuity and instead writes columns proclaiming that "Gore's weightlessness is sinking him" [emphasis added]. On the other hand, all she can say about Bush's campaign is that it's funded by "an astounding number of small contributors." Looks like an exciting matchup, football fans.
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Paglia is NOT left-wing. She is quite the Rush fan, as she will be happy to tell you.
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Here's more from <www.bartcop.com> on Shrub/Butch:

Are 'Gotchas' Good? By Calvin Woodward Associated Press November 6, 1999

"WASHINGTON - Texas Governor George W. Bush calls it "gotcha" journalism. The latest episode raises the issue of whether it's fair to ask questions intended to embarrass more than enlighten."

Hmmm... "Embarrass more than enlighten?" Let's think back - let's go back less than a year.

What were the very important questions that almost felled our flag, according to the formerly honorable Henry Hyde? (R-Scumbag)

1. Mr. President, did you wear a tie given to you by Ms. Lewinsky?

2. Mr. President, did you have an orgasm with Ms Lewinsky?

3. Mr. President, did you kiss her breasts?

4. Mr. President, did you touch Ms. Lewinsky with the intent of creating desire?

5. Mr. President, ...and of course, I get no personal gratification by asking you these insanely personal, yet very important and troubling, constitutional questions, did you kiss Ms. Lewinsky's genitalia?

6. Mr. President, ...and of course, I would never ask these probing questions, it's just that I'm grappling in my mind with this most-important issue, did Ms. Lewinsky kiss your genitalia?

Please, Mr. President, try to understand why we must have detailed answers to these very constutionally-important legal interrogatories, so I can go back to my office and masturbate to the pain this gangrape is causing your family and our country....

THOSE were the questions that were so fucking important a year ago.

Now, with Gov. Butch, it's not fair to ask about nuclear hot spots?

Because his Grand Canyon of Ignorance might embarrass him?

JosieJ - 09:56 am PST - Nov 8, 1999  - #126 of 345
Enough alcohol will raise the Bonehead Quotient in just about any group of people. (Courtesy of Christine Edgar)

Friedman's entire column

He makes some good points: OK, Dubya, so you didn't know the names. Do you even have a CLUE as to where you stand foreign policy-wise? Because if you do, we can forgive you forgetting the names.

Of course, he doesn't have a clue where he stands foreign policy-wise--that's why he looked so lame.
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Ferg or whoever it was above made good points about the comic potential of these clips ("general, general, general,...") in attack ads to come. And nothing needs to be exaggerated or taken out of context--there it is in all of its naked ignorance by the man who would be president. How different this is than the media-assisted slams on Gore which seem to dissipate the closer you get to them. For instance, will a clip of Gore saying "I took the initiative in creating the internet" pack the same punch? I doubt it. Ignorance trumps bragging in the negatives department, and Gore has a lot to brag about along those lines.

Bush at best is a businessman, a maker of sweet deals, at his element in a board room. These people don't need to know the name of a two-bit general halfway around the world. Is a businessman the right person for the job of president at this time? I don't think so--business is perking along just fine without the Oval Office. If anything we need a big picture person to play against various forces including business. Gore is a great big picture person. He saw the internet coming years before 99% of the people reading this message ever heard of it, for example.
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Did anyone hear that Trent Lott came to GW's defense by saying that you know it happened in Massachusetts and that's the only place worse than DC. Way to go Trent. That's the way to be a big picture kind of guy. Attack a region of your own country, although I suspect that you seceded in your own mind years ago.
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That Superme Court nominee was G. Harrold Carswell, and the man who praised his mediocrity was Senator Roman Hruska (R/NB). After the defeat of his nomination Carswell was arrested in Sarasota, Florida buggering a 9-year-old boy in a gas station's public rest room. Had he been confirmed that would have been GREAT headlines.

Since that day, praise of mediocrity has been known as "Hruskaism."

Roman Hruska, curiously enough, was not the Senate's stupidest member at that time. His Nebraska colleague, Carl Curtis, held that honor by all accounts.

I want the Bushes out NOW, out of the presidential race, out or Texas, out of Florida, out of politics, out of public administration, as rapidly as possible. Every day that passes means hundreds, perhaps thousands, more real people's lives will be in some way damaged by their policies of selfish greed and inhumane insensitivity.

Camille Paglia left wing? To whom, Ayn Rand?

George W. Bush isn't really a real businessman, Joe Knapp. Without the multitude of BIG favors done for him by his father's friends and the blatant graft he's engaged in as part of his Texas government job, everything he's done in business would have fallen flat on its face.

Trent Lott's from Mississippi and criticises living conditions in OTHER states? Look homeward, angel.
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Joe Knapp - 11:39 am PST - Nov 8, 1999  - #130 of 345

I was trying to give Bush as much credit as possible ("at best"). The reference to sweet deals alludes to his and his brother Neil's shady deals. When Silverado went under and Neil was asked what his thoughts were when he had been given a 0% interest loan for millions, he said it sounded like a "sweet deal."

As for Paglia, call it a gut reaction, but I'd say a feminist lesbian into paganism might be called "left wing," but acknowledge that once you get out a few standard deviations, the extremes begin to appear similar in their basic world view. These are the people (see also Horowitz) who flip from one so-called extreme to another, proving that the political world is round.
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What gets me is the way the Celebrity Press Corp paraded its ignorance, Well gee I don't know the name of the President of Tawain or any of those other unimportant countries, (like the world's largest democracy say).

If keeping up with current events is so unimportant, why would anyone pay for a newspaper or watch a news broadcast? If they don't think this is important why should the rest of us?
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Foont saith: "Camille Paglia, left wing? To whom, Ayn Rand?"

LOL!!!!!

Here's an update from the ferocious McLaughlin Group discussion on G.W.'s inability to play Name That Head of State:

I am sorry to report that Tony Blankley, British-born though he is, has bought into a particular school of American ethnocentricity. When commenting on Bush's inability to name all four leaders, he said that Bush should have given a Reaganeque reply that foreign leaders should know all about HIM when he's president, and not the other way around.

Oh, thanks a lot, Tony. Let's encourage arrogance and self-absorption. And we need a Reaganesque president like we need another strain of flu.

I wish Tony and Shrub would run afoul of some of the nuns who used to teach us. Corporal punishment would result!
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Lainey,

Your extract from Friedman's column above:

"He was asked to name the leaders of Taiwan, India, Pakistan and Chechnya, and got only Taiwan right. What was scary about the interview was not that George W. didn't know all the names. It was the Quayle-in-the-headlights look on his face when he was asked for them. If I were the Democrats, I would run commercials over and over again just showing that look on his face. And the voice-over would say: "Here's how George W. looked when he was asked to name the leaders of Taiwan, India, Pakistan and Chechnya. Imagine how he would look if he were asked what to do about them."

--GW's Quale-in-the-headlights look on his face when he was asked for them--

Yes, that sentence of Friedman's gets it PERFECTLY!!

Mark,

I think GW has the same problem as his father--he thinks he DESERVES the Presidency through noblese oblige. He doesn't think he has to earn the job because he's never had to learn anything to acquire his other successes in life. I think that "I don't have to work for it; I deserve it" attitude will be his undoing.

Hey Ferg, You're agreeing with ME? You want GW out now? Happy days. Last I heard, you wanted to wait until after the primary to diss him, But that's okay, we all get things wrong sometimes--JUST TEASING! XXOXX
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Joe Knapp - 04:52 pm PST - Nov 8, 1999  - #134 of 345

Blankley's line might have been fine IF Bush knew what the hell was going on in the world. India and Pakistan should know that the president and the US will be all over them about nuclear policy. Most of them could name the last five presidents. Point to Iraq for an example of what military strongmen might expect from the US or UN regarding their foreign adventures. Of course, this is in theory. Our foreign policy in this area has been tremendously damaged by the Republican Congress.

W really has no choice. He can't be trained at this point. He's gotta go forward with the full Ronnie and confine his foreign policy to the platform of the John Birch Society. Keep it simple. Star Wars is what we need. Build a shell. Start working on the flip charts now. Yeah, that's the ticket. Then we won't need to know anyone's polysyllabic names.
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The sad part about the whole name-that-dictator piece is as sexually fucked-up as Clinton is, he would've named all those leaders eight years ago when he was still in Little Rock.
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Since when is sexuality not fucked up?
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Change that to sexually messed up.
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Okay.
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Actually, from everything I've heard Bill Clinton has a very healthy sex drive. Others, however, seem a bit more interested in the details of it than might be considered healthy.

Jo Ann, it was after George W. Bush's educational policy speech, where he advocated cutting funding to "underperforming' schools, that I changed my mind on whether or not we should play political games with this character. Prior to that speech I had advocated withholding everything until we could cause the most damage to the Republican party in the general election. That speech made me acutely aware not only of the danger a George W. Bush candidacy represents but the harm he and others of like mind do to those whose governments they presently administer. The people of Texas (and Florida) deserve better NOW.

That speech made me a strident advocate of bringing him down as low as we can bring him as soon as we can do it and worrying about the general election bridge when we come to it. I don't want that cockroach in public life anymore, even sweeping the streets or collecting the garbage.
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Mark Sterling - 09:20 am PST - Nov 9, 1999  - #140 of 345
"We must show courage in a time of blessing by confronting problems instead of passing them on to future generations...we will reduce taxes..." George Bush showing his keen understanding of the national debt in his inaugural address

Who said Gore is stiff and boring?...how about this little riff on the Imus show?:

Gore, who issued a stern condemnation of Bush right after he failed to name the leaders of four foreign ``hot spots,'' lightened up today when he was asked about the Texas governor on MSNBC's ``Imus in the Morning.''

``The other day I was talking to Utkir Sultanov -- you know, the prime minister of Uzbekistan? And he asked me, 'Did you send a birthday card to Hamed?' That's of course Hamed Karoui, the prime minister of Tunisia,'' Gore told a chuckling Don Imus.

``I thought, 'God I forgot,''' continued the Democratic presidential candidate.

``I had just been talking about him with Ion Sturza, the prime minister of Moldova. We're old friends. We actually met through a mutual friend, Lennart Meri, the president of Estonia of course.''
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Didn't Imus used to say he hated Gore's guts? I listened during the impeachment time, but don't now. So keep us posted please!

Sounds like Gore came off great.
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He ain't as stiff as the Republicans attempt to mislead you into thinking, and he never was. When he becomes president he'll be the coolest guy who ever lived at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
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Karen, I didn't watch the show. That was from the AP link. And Fergy, I would expect you would be promoting the "Gore is Stiff" fallacy so when/if he finally debates Bush it will really be a wipe-out.
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I like straightforwardness best, although I like the "Dick Tuck" kind of trick. I'm not one to bring our guys down, though.
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Robert Hartmann - 10:43 am PST - Nov 9, 1999  - #145 of 345

Didn't Imus used to say he hated Gore's guts?

He was quite direct about it. Imus has said on his show several times over the course of at least two years that Gore was an "evil" person. He said Gore should NEVER be president and he would do anything to keep him out of the White House.

That's one of the main reasons I stopped listening to his show. This news about Gore relaxing on the Imus show and really doing a funny bit baffles me. But not enough to listen to that man Imus.
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I think Tipper has said Al is often stiff.

The VP gets to meet a lot of foreign dignitaries at funerals and so forth. But maybe Republicans do have a built-in problem seeing them as individuals. Here's a real snoozer from VP Nixon during the 1960 campaign:

"We've traveled within and outside of the United States over a half a million miles... mostly by air, but a great deal by automobile... some by even oxcart, by boat and virtually every type of transportation. There have been over three thousand speeches made in campaigns, and all over the world. As far as number of countries we now have visited since becoming, uh, holding our... the present office, fifty-five countries all over the world. We've met a lot of interesting people--some very very important people. In fact, in running down the types of people we have met we found thirty-five presidents, fifteen prime ministers, two emperors, six kings, of course a number of queens, three or four sultans and so on, up and down the line."

Whatever their names are.
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Dubya's response (finally) to the brouhaha: ``People are asking the question who can lead, who can set an agenda ... I haven't memorized every leader's name, but I know exactly how I want to lead the world to peace,'' he said at a news conference during a fund-raising trip to Florida.

This is what he should have said when the reporter confronted him. Instead, he Quayled.

The media should now follow up on exactly how he does want to "lead the world to peace." But I'm betting dollars to donuts that there'll be precious little follow-up on his actual agenda--if it even exists.
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When George W. Bush said, "...but I know exactly how I want to lead the world to peace," any reporter would then have asked, "How, sir, since you just told us that you know exactly how?"

Now, THAT would have been HILARIOUS!
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And he would have recreated the Quayle-caught-in-the-headlights expression if so asked.

Which would have brought the house down.

This man is far to unable to think on his feet to be President. Cripes, at least that simpleton Reagan could act his way out of these problems.
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Chris Andersen - 03:04 pm PST - Nov 9, 1999  - #150 of 345
Dick Morris should stop pretending to be a journalist and go back to pretending he's a political consultant

Hartmann:

He was quite direct about it. Imus has said on his show several times over the course of at least two years that Gore was an "evil" person. He said Gore should NEVER be president and he would do anything to keep him out of the White House.

That's one of the main reasons I stopped listening to his show. This news about Gore relaxing on the Imus show and really doing a funny bit baffles me. But not enough to listen to that man Imus.

I think whoever thought of Gore going on Imus should be given a big fat bonus. There's nothing better to prove a candidates metal then to put them smack dab in the middle of the lion's nest. People like lion tamers and if they can get someone who previously criticized them to sing their praises (or at least grudgingly admit that they aren't so bad) then that is a major coup.

And to do it with someone like Imus is even bigger.

I think Hillary should make this same play.

Joe Knapp:

I think Tipper has said Al is often stiff.

<rimshot>

JosieJ:

Dubya's response (finally) to the brouhaha: ``People are asking the question who can lead, who can set an agenda ... I haven't memorized every leader's name, but I know exactly how I want to lead the world to peace,'' he said at a news conference during a fund-raising trip to Florida.

I think I caught a portion of that appearance. The thing that struck me was that he kept interrupting his comments with nervous giggles and smirks.

I tell you folks, I'm becoming convinced that George doesn't want to be President and is only running because so many of the party leadership are looking for someone, anyone, to save them from disaster.

I'm starting to feel sorry for the guy.

(Not that that mean I don't want him out as soon as possible.)
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Chris Anderson---I think you are right. I have the impression that W is scared to death. After all, he knows his limitations and everything has always been handed to him. The awful truth has set in, and he thinks that if he gets elected, it will be OK because he will be President. But he has found out the hard way that he can't fake it. We the people have found out about RR and the way we were scammed. We will not allow it to happen again.
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I like the way India, Pakistan, Taiwan and Chechnya are being spun as "obscure" countries. Excepting the latter, it pretty much describes one of my group meetings.
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George W. Bush is going around saying things like, "Under my leadership..." and "I know how to lead..."

In other words, he's saying, "I'm a leader, I'm a leader. Vote for me because I'm a leader." I'd like to see some reporter ask him to define "leadership."

Quayle in the headlights.

This is just more of the very common Republican "acceptance through inculcation" ploy, like "liberal press" and "tax and spend Democrat," things that are either blatantly false or totally meaningless but that gain the status of "common knowledge" through endless repetition.
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Ferguson Foont - 06:57 pm PST - Nov 9, 1999  - #154 of 345
Republicans whine and Republicans bitch: "Our rich are too poor, and our poor are too rich!"

India, a nuclear power. A spacefaring nation. The second most populous nation in the world. The nation with the world's oldest culture. The world's most populous democracy.

George W. Bush sees India as an "obscure" nation? I suppose everything seems obscure when one's mind's eye is as blind as George W. Bush's.
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He'll be trying hard for his upcoming Foreign Policy™ speech.

He should really give it up on that front.

Here's a possible campaign song:

Don't know much about history
Don't know much geography
Don't know much about Serb or Czech
Don't know much about Chiang-Kai-Shek
But I do know that I love you
And I know that if you loved me too
What a wonderful world this would be

Don't know much about policy
Don't know much diplomacy
Don't know much about Mozilla
Don't know what a URL is for
But I know that one and one is two
And if this one could be with you
What a wonderful world this would be

Now I don't claim to be an A student
But I'm tryin' to be
Oh maybe by being an A student, baby
I can win your love for me
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LOL!
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Did anyone read that fulsomely fawning column that Safire wrote in the NYT the other day, in which he devotes the bulk of the it to the "soundness" of Bush's supposed insight into the Pakistan situation (that the coup is good and he supports it since it brings stability to the country) and tacks on an objection at the end with an abstract paean to democracy, trying weakly to seem critical?
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With the exception of the following truths not mentioned in the US press:

1) the day Bush was putting his foot in his mouth, a former Pakistani foreign minister was in DC trying to get US acceptance of the new regime

2) India canceled a summit of South Asian nations

3) India took delivery of medium range bombers from Russia capable of delivering nuclear weapons

4) Indian troops have gone on extended alert on the Chinese border

5) Pakistani backed rebels attacked an Indian base in Kashmir killing several officers

6) The LTTE (Tamil separtists) rebels overran several bases in Sri Lanka killing several thousand regular army troops. Indian Tamil politicicans are clamoring for India to intervene on behalf of their fellow Tamils.

Yeah, the world will wait for Bush's leadership and the stability in the Indian subcontinent.
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Blaze Diem - 10:00 pm PST - Nov 9, 1999  - #159 of 345
"You've got to love his deep-set simian eyes, with that precambrian glare! " ( Freeman Beckwith , describing UNpresident George Bush) hahhaa

There are certain qualifications that go with being President of the United States...intellect helps..I don't believe Qubya even has the DESIRE necessary to meet those qualifications in the first place..He's just another Repubican "prop" like Reagan was..He says he'll learn...Will Tubya also wear one of those "President of the United States of America "trainee" name tags to work every day????PLEASE!!!!!! this great nation does NOT need a President-in-training, I really hope that the Republican Voters are NOT as dumb as Bubya is...
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I thought there were some astute observations recently - people are seeing great big doubt, fear, hesitation in Dumbya's eyes, actions and mannerisms - from the beginning, he didn't have a plan or a clue or a vision "thing", no over-whelming desire to be President - he merely reacted to Daddy and party pressures - he did not plan - he did not prepare (at all). He didn't learn, he didn't study - and god, is it ever showing and telling now.
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Being there, Chauncy, Chauncy Gardener.

The only difference is gee dumbya isn't a good gardener.
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Thanks to WonderWho for listing the following incidents ignored by the US press (which, like Dubya, thinks that India and Taiwan and Chechnya and Pakistan are "obscure" nations):

1) the day Bush was putting his foot in his mouth, a former Pakistani foreign minister was in DC trying to get US acceptance of the new regime

2) India canceled a summit of South Asian nations

3) India took delivery of medium range bombers from Russia capable of delivering nuclear weapons

4) Indian troops have gone on extended alert on the Chinese border

5) Pakistani backed rebels attacked an Indian base in Kashmir killing several officers

6) The LTTE (Tamil separtists) rebels overran several bases in Sri Lanka killing several thousand regular army troops. Indian Tamil politicicans are clamoring for India to intervene on behalf of their fellow Tamils.

Yeah, the world will wait for Bush's leadership and the stability in the Indian subcontinent.

By the way: Tried the Newsday link to the Imus article, but since it's a dated link, I got a piece on how Duhbya's bro Jeb has in Florida just killed affirmative action, right after introducing his school-voucher program. Both actions are designed to cater to the Frightened Caucasian vote.
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<www.msnbc.com/news/332901.asp> Jay Severin (weaselly GOP strategist) asks if George is arrogant or ignorant.
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John Covington - 08:45 am PST - Nov 10, 1999  - #164 of 345
"I don't think you have any idea what I have any idea of," Bush sniffed." GWB on himself. I don't think anyone does..

Gee Whiz, maybe he is Both....
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There is another major difference lost to some among the intellectual similarities between Chauncey Gardiner (a.k.a. Chance the Gardener) and George W. Bush: Chauncey Gardiner was basically a nice person.

But George W. Bush is a LEADER, right?

(Or did they say "liter," referring to his overall brain volume?)
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I thought it was one of the litter, not liter.
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Or perhaps merely litter, to be taken out with the rest of the garbage.
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Well, will wonders never cease--I actually agree with Jay Severin. Never thought I'd see that day!
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Let's hope he makes it to the Nomination anyway...When people find out about him from him it will go over better..Someone (PBS) should to a Frontline on "The Dark Side of GWB" and then just let him answer some questions....He can't hold up under a simple 4 question quiz, how will it be when it is "Well about this deal with the Rangers?"....

When the feces hits the ventilator, he will have no place to hide...
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Have you no compassion for the good people of Texas? He needs to be brought down NOW!
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Gary Frazier - 02:21 pm PST - Nov 10, 1999  - #171 of 345
Official Little Yipping Dog of Table Talk--The idiot in the Oval Office is the Residunce of the United States

Texas apparently doesn't have enough good people...they elected the dimbulb twice.
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But they were tricked the same way he is attempting to trick the rest of us. I believe in compassion for the congenitally gullible.
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Next time he fails, someone should ask "Do you need a life line?"..

A friend of mine says we should have a Presidential Vertual Reality System. The Candidate goes in and plays the game, if he blows up the World or causes major strife he loses...Game over...

It would work for me....With the public watching the moves and maybe controling things. With a history of Presidents we have had coming up with a model shouldn't be that hard. It would be real and a better way of finding out about the person, than the Trial and Error we go thru now...
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FF: Perhaps, but shouldn't they have caught on after having observed him in inaction? Though, he did succeed in getting rid of those "junk lawsuits," which is quite the accomplishment I suppose... if you think that the liablity of big business for its actions toward comsumers and employees is irrelevant, and cases related thereto are cluttering up the legal system. Also, I guess you would have to disregard the fact that it was essentially the state legislature's doing, something that was in its closing stages when he first came to office. Without so much as a shred of credentials to claim as his own, how is it that so many people believe him when he says that he will provide "leadership?"
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Chris Andersen 11/9/99 3:04pm

What kind of "metal" did you invision Gore exhibiting? Perhaps the steely resolve of a true alpha male, neh?

I've always thought that sinew and muscle were more related to mettle, provided the person had some heart.
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Mark Sterling - 04:09 pm PST - Nov 10, 1999  - #176 of 345
"We must show courage in a time of blessing by confronting problems instead of passing them on to future generations...we will reduce taxes..." George Bush showing his keen understanding of the national debt in his inaugural address

Funny, I just used that word in the Bush Public Enemy thread in another of George's brilliant foreign policy statements. Talking about the Israeli peace process he was going to used "inter-ballistic missiles" to prevent Israel being "pushed into the Red Sea".
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Dimmit, your boy has paid a fortune for a long time to have the Madison Avenue boys, cook up what he is. How puny of you to keep harping on Al and his advisors.
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Bush has to go NOW, not later. Every step he advances, increases the possibility that he could win the Presidency. You don't want to ignore him, thinking that, 'don't worry, he'll be found out in time', only to wake up one day in Novemeber of 2000 with GW as President-elect.
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With a Campaign Slogan like "I'm Plenty Smart", its going to take all the millions he can slum off people to get him elected. One good debate with Gore should do it, tho..I gues the trick will be to get Duckya to actually show up for a debate, and then to keep the questions and questioners sequestered until they finally appear on-camera...Big Daddy Bush will have his CIA agents paying big money and writing Georges questions for them..woe be to the questioner who asks Flubya a question other than what was authorized by Wubya's Mama Babar....hmmmNow what would be a sampling of "fair" questions for king Flubya????
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Cokie Roberts...."Now Chubya, this is your question..Name a President of the United States...any President..think hard George..take all the time you need...just relax...take a deep breath..you're doing just fine...Just name one President of the United States and everyone will believe you really ARE...... "Plenty Smart".
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Seen over in politics:

Reporter: "Governor Bush, who's buried in Grant's Tomb?"

Dubya: "That General guy?"
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William Froelich - 03:27 am PST - Nov 11, 1999  - #182 of 345
The Cubs will get it done in double O one.

I agree with ACF that the time to stop Shrub is now, although now is already later than you think. GW has a solid core of support and Gore's probable nomination will only give him a larger base. Whether it's right or wrong that they do so, I fear that for many voters next year's election is not between GW and Gore (or Bradley) but a chance for voters to overturn -- at least in their own minds -- the defeat of GH by Bill C.

Despite Bill's decent job approval ratings there remains a whole lot of disgust with his personal life. Voters, although it is not a logical reason, might reject the Democratic nominee to send this message home, in much the same way that a decent man, Ford, never had a chance against Carter because of Americans' disgust with Nixon. Who better to vote for to drive home this disgust than a man with the same name as the man Bill defeated?

I see a lot of psychology at work here. Perhaps I'm being overly pessimistic, but, whether I am or not, I feel that to counteract any possibility of voters voting for GW to redeem themselves for voting against GH, or to avoid any backlash against Gore for Bill's behavior, the Democrats need to run Bradley for president and hope, pray, or take what steps they can to see to it that someone other than GW gets the Republican nod.

Then again, maybe I'm just venting my paranoid fears.


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William, GH is also associated with recession and social decay. No one really wants Bush II that badly. Ford lost less because of disgust with Nixon than with the feeling that he pardoned Nixon to get the White House for himself. Things were also less rosy then. The final end to Vietnam was in 1975, we had roaring inflation and an Energy Crisis, and there was a wave of Mideastern Terrorism. Ford never seemed to get a handle on any of these problems. (Remember his WIN button strategy)? He was never elected President to boot, which meant that many Americans saw him as a "fill-in" until the next (real) President anyway.

I have always believed that people who felt so strongly about Bill's publicized adultery already vote Republican. Most voters have heard about other Presidents's infidelities and judge him less harshly. Sally Hemings takes nothing away from Jefferson's memory, Marilyn Monroe nothing from Kennedy, Kay Summersby nothing from Ike.

The strategy to defeat Bill by using his love life has failed miserably.Tried it in 1992, he won anyway. Paula Jones, et al, couldn't get him removed. Americans are tired of hearing about it. Unless there is something truly outrageous and new, there will be little fresh interest. In any event, people know that he is leaving anyway, and that Gore has had nothing on him like that either.
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This should be a contest against stupidity.

The questions should be for his supporters, Do you support goverment officials that do cocaine?

Do you support white collar criminals?

Do you support sadists?

Do you support drunk drivers?

Do you support using govermental powers to help the wealthy?

Do you support abortion?

Do you support special rights?

Do you support RWGSA?(rich white guy set asides)
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jim coil - 05:51 am PST - Nov 11, 1999  - #185 of 345
If "it's" in the News; it is either a fabrication, exaggeration, distortion, or bald-face lie. Take your pick.

Stupitity or home schooling - I guess it's redundant. But this lying ass jerkoff Gorge says he want to be the education president (his Daddy said that and did absolutely nothing about it) And he is oppossed to Clinton's Education plan which emphasizes hiring 100,000 new teachers - <www.dallasnews.com/specials/bush_campaign/issues/1111bush1teach.htm>

" I Want to be the education president - but no new teachers - "

Asshole.
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Keep the CIA out of the Oval Office! Stop Bush! Vote for the Dem Candidate!
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Good Post Jim Coil: According to Bush's governing Texas, you can beat a kid in school, no permission nor reason needed, and no questions asked..People are locked up for the same thing Georgy got his daddy to cover up. His pollution control is a National disgrace, his academic accomplishments amount to his being head of social functions for his fraternity. He has forgotten the poor, but can smile and wave in Spanish, blacks and women don't count unless they're on the execution list, or sitting on George's lap trading favors for "lines", He's a drunken coke-head, an embezzler and a murderer, he comes from a family of liars and theives and of unconscienable greed. He has no idea what the world is about, and isn't interested in finding out. I truely fear for our great Nation and the people whose voices will be ignored if George Bush becomes President. Continue to use forums, like Salon, to show the real faces behind the Bush mob. There are too many powerful and wealthy supporting George Bush..too much control for a powerful few. Our world, in the hands of Bush's "New World Order", will be the the armageddon for us all. Obviously it will not be Georgy who will be leading our country, he's just their chosen stooge, they will do what they want with this nation, and it will definately serve their own interests. It is the Nazi mentality, and I cannot stress the importance of using our Freedom of Speech, as long as we still have it to use, to expose this family with too much power, as to the frightening facts they have covered up over the years. They care for no one on the planet more than their own. Woe be to anyone who dares to stand in their way. I hope people have not become too complacent over the Clinton years, to ever believe the Bush family will provide the same support for our poor, our children, aging parents, as well as our freedoms of speech and free enterprise. They will not. Because it wouldn't benefit them and the powerhouse corporations that are financing G Bush's campaign. Continue to speak out and expose their illegal crimes and their self serving intentions.
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Ferguson Foont - 07:32 am PST - Nov 11, 1999  - #188 of 345
Republicans whine and Republicans bitch: "Our rich are too poor, and our poor are too rich!"

Hamsum, "credit" is not something I give when a Republican successfully implements tort reform. Rather I assign blame.

The Republicanese phrase "tort reform" translates in English to "indemnification of big business." Their preferred method of achieving this is a concept called, "loser pays," where the loser in a lawsuit, whether plaintiff or defendant, must pay the legal and associated expenses incurred by the winner.

How, then, does a private citizen sue a tobacco company, for example? The tobacco companies employ armies of high-powered attorneys whose influence cannot possibly be matched by any representation a private citizen can muster. How can this citizen then be certain enough of the outcome of the case to risk liability for literally MILLIONS of dollars the tobacco companies would have spent in their defense?

The CORRECT way to implement tort reform is to legislatively define the concept of "frivolity" as it pertains to tort actions and to implement legal penalties for filing a lawsuit found to be frivolous. The Republicans don't like this, though, because it is not the FRIVOLOUS lawsuits that bother them, but the MERITORIOUS ones, and it is these meritorious lawsuits that they wish to intimidate the public from bringing against their corporate patrons.

Chris, when George W. Bush demonstrates his "metal," it usually seems to be brass, with horns of tin, feet of lead, and a mind of frozen molecular hydrogen.

On the other hand, he has no "mettle" to display.

See, it can be FUN to play the pedant!

I would not mind seeing the presidential candidates face something like a "College Bowl" or "It's Academic" format. Or even "Jeopardy" or "Win Ben Stein's Money." I really would like to know how smart these guys are.

George W. Bush COULD (in the unlikely and tragic event he were to be elected) become "The Education President." He could be on a public service announcement puzzling over, "General... General... General... General..." with the voiceover saying, "If you don't want to turn out like THIS, stay off drugs and stay in school."

(OH GOD that would make a great 10 second campaign spot!!!!!)

Tedzep, the "Dem Candidate" will be Al Gore. Mortal lock.
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Well, maybe I am just paranoid, but I cannot shake this gut feeling that the majority of American voters are going to vote for Shrub. I still say, a lot of voters want someone they can identify with. Given that the average voter is, by definition, average, and given that Geroge W is also average, I fear he'll get more support than he deserves.

I hope Blaze Diem is right, that if we who abhor GW continue getting the word out, we can turn the tide. The danger here is that we may breed resentment, that a backlash could result from what could be taken as mean spirited attack politics, even when we speak the truth.

The sad fact is that the country, or a large portion of it, has turned selfish and greedy. Many people, though they themselves have neither a pot to piss in or window to throw it out, nevertheless identify, perhaps out of admiration or awe, with the wealthy. I cannot count the number of low paid workers I've met who have defended their bosses and condemned union workers in the same industry. It's this mentality that I fear might affect the 2000 election. A lot of the poor have such low self esteem that they do not feel they deserve government help, even when that help is no more than a increase in the minimum wage.


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Voters may often be stupid in who they vote for, but there is no way in the world they are going to be oblivious to George W.'s stupidity. It's just too obvious. He is already being stuck with the Quayle II label, and the longer the campaign lasts the more obvious it is that the would-be emperor has no clothes at all. For the first time in years, G.W. is being stripped naked in public.
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Blaze Diem - 08:08 am PST - Nov 11, 1999  - #191 of 345
"You've got to love his deep-set simian eyes, with that precambrian glare! " ( Freeman Beckwith , describing UNpresident George Bush) hahhaa

Wiliam Froelich: Yes, I understand your point, frightful as it may be.I perhaps fear more, that with G Bush as President, we may never again have the freedom we enjoy now with Salon.I recall during the Ken Star fiasco, it was Salon and their investigative reporters, and those who appeared to voice their disapproval, that replicated the anti-government riots of the 60's but this time we went on-line to protest. We must never sacrifice the ability to speak out...it's necessary to our democracy. How long do you think it would take the Bush power machine to eliminate places like Salon. It seemed, during the Clinton trials, that Salon became the ONLY place one could have a voice and unite. Those who are holding George Jr. in the palm of their hand, have the desire, power, and mentality to arrange anything to suit their greed. I also fear that some will believe the Bush "image". Heaven help us all!!!!
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Anyway, Al Gore will be our next President ...Dimya will never make it through a debate with him.
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Never underestimate the enemy. I remember in late 1979 and early 1980 being told that reagan couldn't win. Carter would clean up in a debate. reagan won.

Carter barely beat Ford even with the pardon of nixon, and the Poland gaff.

Even today the gop(group of fools) are running commercials saying that the Democrats are trying to spend the Social Security Surplus. The educated know the facts but the average man in the streets doesn't.

Organize, educate, energize and vote. Or gee dumbya may ...
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Jim Coil:

'Stupitity or home schooling - I guess it's redundant.'

I don't think home schooling is inherently bad. The problem lies in why a child is home schooled. Is it because of their learning style which is better served by the setup at home or is it because the parents disapprove of the subject matter being taught in their public school? The latter is what's driving the growth of home schooling these days and giving it the bad reputation it richly deserves.
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The educated know the facts but the average man in the streets doesn't.

This is the CENTRAL fact of politics, and the reason George Bush is such a threat.
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Chris Andersen - 10:27 am PST - Nov 11, 1999  - #196 of 345
Dick Morris should stop pretending to be a journalist and go back to pretending he's a political consultant

Susan Nunes:

Voters may often be stupid in who they vote for, but there is no way in the world they are going to be oblivious to George W.'s stupidity. It's just too obvious. He is already being stuck with the Quayle II label, and the longer the campaign lasts the more obvious it is that the would-be emperor has no clothes at all. For the first time in years, G.W. is being stripped naked in public.

On a related note, TJ Walker <www.tjwalker.com> has an interview online with Robert Bork in which Bork says that Dubya is dumber then Quayle.
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According to several New Hampshire polls released today, McCain has caught GW. They're running neck and neck, with McCain getting the majority support of Republican men.
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It wasn't the fact he couldn't answer tough questions, it was the petulant way he responded tinged with fluster. This man really is an empty suit. My bold prediction, his campaign is doomed!
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I have my doubts that Dubya will be the Republican nominee.
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ACE: post 194...Georgey Bush is living proof that the finest of private schools are not capable of teaching a kid that would rather play than learn..yet we have brilliant young people that have excelled in life by the simple fact that they wanted to, and there were public school educators along the way who knew how to inspire kids who had nothing but a vision...George Bush had many opportunities given to him along the way. His sorry record of accomplishments speak for themselves, as does his lack of knowledge. He's never HAD to work at anything in his life..why would he start now? I'll take the kid who's walked the gauntlet of life with little or nothing handed to him. The kid that grows up to be President of the United States by his vision, perseverance, and intellect. King George is a cocky, arrogant, little drunken coke-head, a lazy ass, pissy-pants, spoiled rich kid. May God save King George from himself. Bush is a total screw-up...let Texas keep him, its a big enough State for George to "lord" himself over, without destroying the entire Nation with his low I.Q.
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Sue Denime - 02:40 pm PST - Nov 11, 1999  - #201 of 345
Justice Stevens: 'Although we may never know with complete certainty ... the winner of this year's presidential election, the identity of the loser is perfectly clear. It is the nation's confidence in the judge as an impartial guardian of the law'..

Exactly right.

Are't the Republicans the ones always spouting that Horatio Alger stories can work, that noone needs a handout in today's America? Aren't they the ones who say that anyone who wants to succeed can?

Doesn't Rush say "if you want to know how to get to the top, ask someone successful"?

If this were all how they truly felt, and not just Bullshit, then they would all be fans of the guy who proves their point:

Son of father who died before son was born. Brought up by a single mother working 2 jobs. Product of public schools. Step-son of a wife-abuser and alcoholic. Earned a full ride to college. Worked his way up to work for a Senator. Rhodes Scholar First in his class at Yale Law Governor of a small state who rose to national prominence through determination and political skill.

Doesn't that sound like Horatio Alger to you?
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Sorry about the punctuation. I hit return in there, but it doesn't seem to work. <techno phobe mode on>
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The tide may be turning against Shrub, if Table Talk is any indicator, as I have seen some of the Conservative posters here state that they think that McCain is the best candidate--not long ago they were up in arms defending Shrub...
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What happens to all the cash if he loses? Can he give it to McCain?
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Use 2 returns or <br><br> to get the HTML to get paragraphs looking right.
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Good post, Sue. I agree 100%.
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CJohnson - 03:38 pm PST - Nov 11, 1999  - #207 of 345
Selected, not elected. If Dubya can be president, so can I. Who needs a vote?

You can also use (p) replace with carets: to get two spaces automatically for paragraphs.
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Yep, I have observed the same trend in TT posters..I think that the more stupidity that is revealed about Dumya the less people will want to associate their good name with such a dimwit. I think most Americans take the Office of President of the United States much more serious than Klubya ever will. It is NOT his birthright...he is NOT the chosen one...he's just a lazy-ass rich kid with no ability to write his own speech, nor speak from the heart. However, I'm certain that the Press will continue to "tell" us how Bush is leading in the polls, and adjust the numbers accordingly. We will continue to hear how well George is doing, a sure winner by their accounts. But as we continue to speak out about the reality of this man whose IQ alone is a threat to our Nation, the proof will indeed be in the pudding, and the whipped topping with the maraschino on top will be when Bush goes home to Texas to lick his self inflicted wounds. He's a loser.
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tedzep--I've also read that the polls in New Hampshire are turning against GW. Today three separate polls, by different margins, were reporting that McCain had drawn even with GW. McCain gets the majority of Republican male votes in New Hampshire. Three months to go, and things could change, but McCain right now keeps gaining over GW.
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What happens to Dubya's cash when he pulls out?

He can either keep it, or give it back to the donors, but it CANNOT go straight from his campaign to that of another candidate.

Even if he were to give back every red cent - which I seriously doubt will happen - it will literally take months for that money to find its way to the pockets of Dubya's replacement.

That's why, when most everyone else I know was horrified at his raking in the dough, I was saying "YES! MORE! MORE!!!": every dollar given to Dubya is a dollar essentially taken away from the GOP.
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Actually, the Horatio Alger stories are more about being in the right place at the right time than they are about hard work and perseverance being rewarded.
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j.d. wagner - 07:34 pm PST - Nov 11, 1999  - #212 of 345
I'm a drunken cokehead, can I be President daddy?

Good point TLB. What's even more tantalizing to me is what will happen if Shrub doesn't get the nomination or crashes and burns in the election. Consider this folks: There has been so much money poured into this dumb shmuck, with more to come. He's gotten the endorsement of so many Governors, Reps in the House and Senate so early in the process that if he does crash, he'll take a lot of morons with him by association. Everyone will be left to explain why they chose this idiot when they knew so little about him. Not to mention the cataclysmic loss of morale that will occur when their man takes a dive, and the resulting chaos that will ensue. Just the thought of it makes me giggle.
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Okay, so I was referring to what the term Horatio Alger has come to mean. But thanks for pointing out my illiteracy. :)
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The Media Machine might be getting the message too. I notice that there are more and more stories touting John McCain as a war hero, etc...one tonight on MSNBC.

The word from the top might be to cut Dummy-a loose. Pappy and his syncophants are starting to look like crap for this one..I wonder if this will spoil Jeb's chances in the future? He seems to be more of a contender than his older, Dad-look alike brother. I like what a poster calls Dub-ya...Barbara's "little puddin' head"..."he's special, you know"...LOL
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Jeb looks just like her, I'd have thought he'd be her little puddin head.<grin>
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Junior's in 'till he's beaten in the primaries. We'll know if McCain is a genuine threat to the Coronation when and if the Iron Trapezoid starts dishing serious dirt on him.

Rumors about his nasty temper and his wife's drug addiction are non-starters, since A) Few people expect (or want) a President to be mild-mannered and meek and B) Cindy McCain's drug problem is old news, fully aired, and she's clean'n'sober now.

Plus they can't talk about her preferential treatment without Junior's becoming an issue again.

Oh, I do hope McCain overtakes Junior. How lovely that will be, to see Junior's campaign in panic mode.
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jim coil - 04:56 am PST - Nov 12, 1999  - #217 of 345
If "it's" in the News; it is either a fabrication, exaggeration, distortion, or bald-face lie. Take your pick.

The front runer doesn't have to debate - it's a great strategy, if you want to lose. The front page story on my local paper today says' McKain, Bush tie in N.H. poll. (ha-ha).

I think perhaps some old rules don't apply today. I will e-mail the Bush buzzards for opinions on which one's they are.

Of course if your consumed with fear and terror about your candidates' abilities and stupidity - then maybe you canjust buy your way to the WhiteHouse - but, I don't think so.
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Let us hope that he doesn't crash and burn to early. There is alot of money he needs to spend on trashing his opponets. Forbes and McCain need to duke it out a bit.

The longer gee dumbya is in the worse it gets for the 'pie in ears' group and associated fools that backed him. The politicos that pushed him to the fore before it was understood just how bad he was and what continued damage he did to their cause will start a backlash against them(the politicos) thus causing the foodfight that will cause the independents to run from any gop candidate.
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Ferguson Foont - 08:10 am PST - Nov 12, 1999  - #219 of 345
Republicans whine and Republicans bitch: "Our rich are too poor, and our poor are too rich!"

William Froelich said, explaining why he feels that George W. Bush may actually, Heaven forbid, become our next president, "I still say, a lot of voters want someone they can identify with."

I see three basic problems with this statement and its application. First of all, I think most voters want a president who shows some promise that he will perform the duties of the presidency better than they themselves would be able to, since most voters' occupations are not politics or governance. As with any job people wish to have performed on their behalf, people prefer to have that job done by a skilled professional rather than having Just-Like-Me Joe Nextdoor hacking away at it. This may apply even more to the presidency than to most other callings.

Secondly, there are numerous ways that the average voter is likely to see George W. Bush as being different from them. He has had numerous advantages that most people have had to do without in their lives, and has been able to enjoy a somewhat more adventurous past without suffering what might be considered the appropriate consequences. There are very few "average voters" who can buy into a baseball team and rake in millions of dollars upon its sale due to sheer favoritism.

Third, accurately or not, most voters would not characterize themselves as "dumb," and that's the way George W. Bush has come across in almost every unscripted encounter to date. If you ask most voters what qualities they look for in a president, very few indeed will mention "ignorance."

Remember, William, people who are selfish and greedy also tend to be envious, and they resent it when they see people enjoy advantages they themselves have been denied.

I strongly agree with SGeorge that we mustn't underestimate our foe. He is NOT a drooling moron but a guy of very slightly above-average intelligence (probably somewhat below average "native intelligence" but the extraordinarily enriched environment he has enjoyed throughout his life has brought it up a bit), and if we expect him to wear a dunce cap openly we may be disappointed. We run the risk of having it become a great advantage to George W. Bush whenever he gets the answer to even the simplest question right, but we must remember that he could probably score in the 60%-70% range on many high school level civics, geography or history tests.

We don't want to put him in a position where he can impress an audience with his sparkling intellect by pointing out that Abraham Lincoln freed the slaves or that the Great Depression was a time of hardship for many Americans.

He probably actually DOES know these things.

Sue Denime, in your post #201 on this thread you pointed out why Bill Clinton is a man of TRUE character. A powerful sex drive does not diminish the stellar accomplishments of his life. The path to success followed by Bill Clinton stands in stark contrast to the one trodden by George W. Bush. Bill Clinton had every excuse to fail and yet he became a truly great success. George W. Bush was given every advantage imaginable throughout his life and yet is destined to fail utterly -- EVEN IF HE SHOULD WIN THE PRESIDENCY.

The difference is character.
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When you describe it as a "non-starter" as an issue when a candidate for president is prone to the occasional temper tantrum, as is John McCain, I think you may have a different perception of political reality than I do.

Do we want a man who loses control of his temper in public to serve in a position where his daily decisions affect millions of lives? Not me.

He has also demonstrated a streak of unusual cruelty, with his inexplicable attacks on Chelsea Clinton. Cruelty to children is another characteristic I find particularly distasteful. It demonstrates an extraordinary lack of judgment.

The fact is, John McCain is hardly more fit to be president than George W. Bush. The Republicans have not offered up a very good crop this year.
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Sasha Miller - 08:34 am PST - Nov 12, 1999  - #221 of 345
She Who Must Be Obeyed--My president is Martin Sheen.

It's a sad, sad commentary on the times when these two are the best of a very poor crop, to be sure.

I can remember one (1) instance of Clinton's losing his temper in public, and then it wasn't very public at all. It was early on in his presidency, when something or other hadn't been taken care of and he made his displeasure known, in no uncertain terms, to some of his aides. Somebody with a camera happened to be close by enough to catch the "...Goddammit, get that out of here..." or words to that effect. It was definitely off-stage, whatever.

And appropriate to the moment.
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There is a difference between anger at a poorly done job and a temper tantrum. Bill Clinton's anger had a purpose; that aide will undoubtedly be less careless in the future.
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What chills my blood is the thought of one of the Republicans, if, God forbid, they get into office, having a temper tantrum and setting off a global conflict....
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It's actually a Hobson's choice. We can have Republicans prone to temper tantrums, like Bush or McCain, or ones entirely lacking in emotion at all, like Forbes.

Republican primary voters are being asked to pick one out of a group that includes a couple of children, one of whom is cruel and thoughtless while the other is slow and weak-minded, and a robot.

Sorta makes you glad to be a Democrat.
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Sorta?

I'm glad I shucked what has come to be the Republican Party back in the closing years of the Reagan fiasco. But I'm sorry that the GOP has strayed so far from what it used to be--the necessary balance wheel to possible liberal (at that time) excesses.

Now, "liberalism" as the Republicans still try to pretend it is, does not even exist. Died quietly in its sleep sometime in the late 60's.
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What this country needs is a few of those "liberal excesses." Universal health care, subsidized day care, increased educational funding, TGV intercity railbeds as a Federal public works project, restoration of fourth amendment rights -- all of these things have been referred to as "liberal excesses."
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Mark Sterling - 09:42 am PST - Nov 12, 1999  - #227 of 345
"We must show courage in a time of blessing by confronting problems instead of passing them on to future generations...we will reduce taxes..." George Bush showing his keen understanding of the national debt in his inaugural address

I'm not a big fan of McCain's conservative politics but I do think this temper issue is a bogus one. I don't think anyone is going to start a world war just because they have a temper. Clinton has a temper too, but I don't think that has affected his presidency or the decisions he has made.
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No, but it reflects on his judgment when he loses control of himself in public. This is simply not something a politician is supposed to do.

It leaves one to wonder what types of decisions he may make for emotional rather than rational reasons. I don't think it's a bogus issue at all.
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He's hardly losing his temper in public that much if we need some Arizona newspaper to report this "problem". Shouldn't it be a bit more obvious?
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Watch him. Watch him closely when he's on the stump. His emotions often overwhelm him. He is not altogether stable.

I'm telling you, John McCain's not the man we want making our most crucial decisions.
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The Arizona newspapers are the ones who have been watching John McCain closely for the longest time. Don't you realize how shocking a repudiation it is for the Governor of Arizona to endorse Bush instead of her own party's Senator? She could have endorsed McCain without any political risk from Dubya -- the Favorite Son excuse is always acceptable, and the endorsement is easily transfered from the Favorite Son to the Nominee.

Jane Hull doesn't think McCain is qualified to be President. Of course, her judgement is suspect, since she seems to think that Dubya is.
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Well, Jane Hull must be "plenty smart" too...Must be a Republican thing...
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TLB-in-MN - 01:02 pm PST - Nov 12, 1999  - #233 of 345

This is beginning, more and more, to look like 'psychic political judo".

The Republicans will be undone by their weapons. And all the money in the world can't shield them from facing the consequences of their mistakes.

I am forcibly reminded of the ratings war between the two big pro wrestling leagues, Vince McMahon's WWF and the Time-Warner-owned WCW.

WCW's head honcho, Eric Bischoff, decided to spend a ton of T-W's money in order to compensate for the fact that he had no idea how to do his job. He bought up all the wrestling talent he could, simply to keep it out of the hands of the WWF, but - because he himself was too busy placating Hulk Hogan and his allies - was unable to utilize all this talent at even a fraction of its potential.

Bischoff was reduced to offering huge sums for various non-wrestlers to show up on WCW, but none of these gimmicks could make up for the lack of a coherent storyline. Eventually, Time-Warner brass got sick and tired of seeing Bischoff blow off tens of millions of dollars while losing the Monday Night Wars to the WWF, and handed him his notice.

A similar thing will be happening to the Bush Family partisans in the GOP come 2000.
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I'd rather face a weakened and chastened Bushbaby who had to spend millions to beat back John McCain than face a maverick John McCain, who, on a shoestring, came from behind, to beat the odds, again, and defeat the Establishment candidate.

I'm tellin' ya, George W's a dream opponent.
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Jo Ann Simon - 03:37 pm PST - Nov 12, 1999  - #235 of 345
Free thinker; Independent-minded bitch; Don't even TRY to brainwash me!

In answer to a poster above, Jeb definitely IS his momma's favorite. When he lost his first Governor's bid in Florida, Babs was so upset that she only could give a few sentences of congratulation to her eldest, GW, on his win in Texas. (Tell you something about what the family thinks of GW?)

Ferg,

F. Bruni (NYTimes reporter who's been following GW on the campaign trail) has articles today and yesterday describing interviews with GW supporters who showed up at his rallys in South Carolina. Most of those favoring him can't answer the question of WHY they favor him. They can't name the issues he supports. Many finally end up saying, "Well, I like his mother and father--family values and all--so I like him. He must have learned something about governing at his father's knee." Duh?

One can only hope that these voters will do a little more deep thinking when (and if) they find out more about who GW is and his dismal record in Texas.

The things that trouble me the most about GW are his screw-the-environment in favor of big business (major contributors) attitude, and his 'let's put all those low class non-white addicts and minor felons in jail--keep them off "OUR" streets. Lock them away where we don't have to look at them anymore.' Followed by his hypocritical calls to hispanics and other minorities to vote for him, when he's incarcerating more of their numbers than probably any Governor in the history of Texas since the Civil Rights movement in the 1960's.

I don't think GW is totally dumb; only disinterested in studying up on things that don't interest him (like foreign policy and the environment and the new world order); which makes him doubly dangerous, because he's intelligent to talk the glib talk and be believed, but not wise enough to put the country's interests before his own selfish ones.

On to your comment, Ferg, about Clinton's sex drive. Biologically and historically, this drive shows him to be the inheritor of the genes of the Alpha male that used to be admired in the past. In earlier human societies and in most animal societies, the more females a male can pull into his hold, the more powerful he becomes=--BECAUSE he is the most successful male in getting his genes planted into the next generation, and the whole purpose of life is progenation of the species (whichever one it might be). The best to the best, and the next generation is stronger. The larger the number of the females a dominant male could impregnate, the greater his chances of improving the species and having it continue.

We have become so artificially civilized now that the majority of our fellow humans have forgotten or discarded this inborn male drive--but, try to pretend otherwise or ignore it, it still exists under the surface. It's in our genes
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I NEVER dissed the guy for having a bit of fun with Monica, Jo Ann. Indeed, after the job he's done under all the pointless stress that's been foisted upon him by the weird Republican ultrapartisanship, I'd say he deserved it. More power to 'im.

The problem with the academic subjects in which George W. Bush showed no interest (not "disinterest," which means impartiality; that's one of the common word choice errors that grates on my ears the worst) is that they are the subjects most closely related to what would be his duties as president.

He brings nothing to the table to recommend him for the presidency. If he did bring something it might be potentially conceivable to overlook his myriad flaws, but it would have to be something exceptionally spectacular to overcome his multitudes of personal and professional peccadilloes and outright misdeeds.
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On Hardblah tonight, Maureen Reagan hinted that McCain had her family's endorsement as the one worthy of carrying the mantle of her father's legacy(whatever that is), not the boy from the people downstairs.

That's a pretty stern slap for Shrub, who wants to appear to be the next Reagan(a two-termer), and not be like one-termer Daddy...
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Ferguson Foont - 07:11 am PST - Nov 13, 1999  - #238 of 345
Republicans whine and Republicans bitch: "Our rich are too poor, and our poor are too rich!"

Oh, right. Someone like McCain to "carry forward the Reagan legacy" of greed, bellicosity and debt. Just what we need.

Maybe we can get Forbes instead, who might carry forward the legacy of Calvin Coolidge (the Great Depression).
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The Bushes hate the Reagans but use the Reagans like they use everyone in their orbit. The Reagans hated the Bushes but needed them because the Bushes excell in dirty election tricks and one trick was to have a Secret Service agent who was once for Nixon steal Jimmy Carter's debate notes.

Reagan used these illegally obtained notes to win his debate BUT he despised Bush for this nasty little trick. Nixon loved his tricksters. Reagan was annoyed by them. Ollie North never entered his orbit either, but he used him anyway.

Reagan could get any right wing stooge to eat out of his hand.
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To see George W. Bush's Yale University transcript, go to

<www.american-politics.com/111399MacArthur.html>

George W. Bush has admitted that the information therein is correct.
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Someone enlighten me a bit. When a conservative rants about how affirmative action can have the effect of reverse discrimination thereby allowing a person to gain a job or place in a university without merit to the detriment of the more qualified, why don't they also rant about those that are granted special favors by virtue of who their parents are?

Also, what is a 'gentleman's C" ?
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I love that article--a cold slap of reality in the face of the Spin Machine.
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Susan Nunes - 03:57 pm PST - Nov 13, 1999  - #243 of 345
Bush Put the Fraud in Fraudida

I am going to cut G.W. a little--very little--slack about the grades issue. I know when I was the same age as he was when he was in college, my grades were not very good. I later dropped out and then returned ten years later, and my grades were and are extremely high. Maturity had a lot to do with it. Personally, I don't think it is a big deal his grades were not straight A's. And so many people think that getting into Yale is such a big deal, at least back East. I have been told by some people who have lived back there that where you go to college is such a big, big deal that if you don't get into an Ivy League school, you're doomed to failure. I can't speak for others who live in the West, but where you go to school isn't such a big deal.

What I am concerned about is what George has done in the thirty plus years since he's left Yale. It seems he hasn't matured one bit.
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Ferg, Sorry, but I wasn't accusing you of misinterpeting the Clinton sex drive thing. I was just trying to expound on my personal views of humanity and our nature and why the sex drive is so strong in certain males. And regarding GW's study habits, you're correct, I should have said not interested rather than disinterested.

To another poster's question (sorry, I forgot to write down whose post), a 'Gentlemenly C' is a passing grade given to an undistinguised student, who probably deserves to fail, but whose family contributes huge amounts of money to a university or has great prominence in the worlds of finance and/or politics. Pass the "dumb kid" and succor the favor of the influential parents--in other words, "kiss ass."

----Report in NYTimes today--11/13,(AP, Nov 12, Manchester, NH).--- NIGHTLINE WITHDRAWS FROM REPUBLICAN FORUM

"ABC's 'Nightline' has pulled out of a Republican presidential candidates' forum it was cosponsoring with a local TV station on Dec. 2.

"Su-Lin Nichols, an ABC News spokeswoman, said on Thursday that the decision resulted from concerns over the format of the planned 90-minute forum with WMUR-TV. Ms. Nichols would not say what the concerns were.

"'After careful consultation with the management of WMUR,' she said, 'we have concluded that the format agreed to by WMUR is not appropriate for a Nightline broadcast.'

"WMUR would not comment on Thursday night.

"The Forum, the first to feature all six Republican presidential candidates, was to be broadcast live from WMUR's studio from 8 to 9:30pm, and rebroadcast to a national audience on an extended edition of Nightline later that night. It was to be moderated by WMUR news director Karen Brown and Nightline anchor, Ted Koppel."

Ferg, See any connection to GW camp efforts to 'control and set' debate format?? I sure do, and, boy, would I like to know more about why Nightline pulled out!!!
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If you read MacArthur's current column in AmPol, you see that he's implying that Dubya got some help with his grades by getting an advance look at the exams. This is a pretty explosive charge, but Mac is a pretty reliable source.

Will anyone pick this up and run with it?
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j.d. wagner - 04:19 pm PST - Nov 13, 1999  - #246 of 345
I'm a drunken cokehead, can I be President daddy?

To another poster's question (sorry, I forgot to write down whose post), a 'Gentlemenly C' is a passing grade given to an undistinguised student, who probably deserves to fail, but whose family contributes huge amounts of money to a university or has great prominence in the worlds of finance and/or politics.

So, in other words he's even dumber then the grades indicate?
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j.d wagner, in the past, only the rich and privileged were able to attend college. However, that later changed to where the deserving poor and middle class were also able to go. Many times one's ability to get a good job hinged on his college grades. Since the son of a rich man already had a job waiting for him (or didn't need one at all), it was considered bad form to work hard for high grades and perhaps deprive some more underprivileged student who might actually benefit from graduating with highest honors or at the top of the class. Of course, disgracing the family with failures was frowned upon too, so a nice "gentlemanly C" was what was aspired to.
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He got his lowest grade, a 69, in astronomy.

As an astronomer, I now think even less of him than I did before, and I had not thought that could be possible.

I had LOUSY grades in high school, passing most of my classes on the strength of my exam scores which usually led the class. I HATED homework, always having something more interesting to read (usually about astronomy or cryogenics). I did well in college, though.
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TLB-in-MN - 04:48 pm PST - Nov 13, 1999  - #249 of 345

Tina:

Yeah, that's the ticket!

He was allowing some poor lad to leap ahead of him! How noble!

Meanwhile, more evidence that W.'s childhood was of extremely long duration:

<www.sfgate.com> Bush Gets (Green) Egg on His Face Over Reading List

Carla Marinucci, Chronicle Political Writer

Saturday, November 13, 1999

©1999 San Francisco Chronicle

Should curious George spend more time at the library?

Texas Gov. George W. Bush, who is often photographed reading to children on the presidential campaign trail, was asked in a survey recently to name his favorite book from childhood.

He cited Eric Carle's ``The Very Hungry Caterpillar.'' Trouble is, it wasn't published until 1969 -- the year after he graduated from Yale.

The survey of 50 governors, conducted by Pizza Hut as part of a literacy promotional campaign, drew some expected responses from Bush's colleagues.

Most named classics such as Dr. Seuss, ``The Little Engine That Could'' and ``Aesop's Fables.''

But four of the seven books named by Bush, who was born in 1946, weren't written until long after he was out of grade school.

Besides ``The Very Hungry Caterpillar,'' he cited ``Sarah's Flag for Texas'' (1993), ``James and the Giant Peach'' (1961) and ``Tuck Everlasting'' (1975).

He also cited ``My Side of the Mountain'' (1959), ``Just So Stories'' (1902) and ``Wind in the Willows'' (1908).

``The question we asked governors was what was their favorite childhood book -- that is, what was your favorite book when you were growing up?'' said Boris Weinstein, spokesman for Pizza Hut's literacy effort.

Here's how his handlers tried to wriggle out of this mess:

The GOP front-runner, father of two 17-year-olds, cited ``books he reads to children across Texas and America, and books he read to his daughters,'' said campaign spokesman Scott McClellan.

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Re: Ivy League Schools or doomed to failure

On the other hand, for sheer career prospects, it is better to get a degree in Engineering at a Cal State school, than it is to get an English Lit degree at Yale.

But then there is a bit of a trade-off, since one would not have the opportunity to harvest those Yale connections...

This is the same reason why kids often choose USC over UCLA--although UCLA has a higher academic ranking, is less expensive and is smack dab in the Middle of the Westwood/Bel-Air/Holmby Hills area. USC is smack dab in the middle of the worst urban blight in America--just so. of Downtown...but...ah...those alumni connections!!!!!
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I'm sure Dubya identifies greatly with "Toad" in The Wind In the Willows

If you've read it, you'll know why.
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Bush is brain damaged. I read tons of books to my kids and yet I clearly remember the books I loved when I was a kid.
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Ferguson Foont - 05:32 pm PST - Nov 13, 1999  - #253 of 345
Republicans whine and Republicans bitch: "Our rich are too poor, and our poor are too rich!"

That book question would have been embarrassing for me. Somehow "The History of Astronomy" would have proven awkward to explain.
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That book question would have been embarrassing for me. Somehow "The History of Astronomy" would have proven awkward to explain.

Not to those of us that know you, Mr. Foont!.
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It shows that Bush didn't read Suess.
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Hmm, I see from his Yale transcript that Shrub got an 88 in Philosophy. All those who think he could answer the question "Who wrote The Critique of Pure Reason?" please raise your hands. Now all those who think the Dekes had a copy of the test for him to use please raise your hands.

I thought so.
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I'm actually impressed that Dubya knows of at least one more children's book besides "The Hungry Caterpillar".
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And that was????? I must have missed something. Hints?
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Why he might even be able to name THREE kid's books! Give him a few hours and some help.

If he really really tries he can spell his name in crayons. Right?
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tedzep - 08:03 pm PST - Nov 13, 1999  - #260 of 345
¿President? Bush

I tend to agree with what Al Gore said about Quayle on Letterman, in that Dan Quayle got a bad rap. Quayle had ideas; he could think on his feet. Sure he made the goofiest gaffes, that the Press creamed him over. I think some of it was nervousness, plus some underlying insecurity that got aggravated by the merciless Media coverage. I still would rue the day Quayle became President, but given a choice between him, and Mr. "The Lights are on but Nobody's Home", I know who would be my choice.
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Not only did Mac hint that W got advance copies of tests in college, he also slipped in a little comment that W wasn't always there for tests: is Mac implying that someone else took tests for W?
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If the public doesn't care that Junior got preferential treatment in avoiding 'Nam, preferential treatment in dealing with drunken driving, and preferential treatment in amassing a personal fortune, I doubt the public will give a damn about his getting preferential treatment in college.

Maybe that's the source of his otherwise inexplicable popularity. Maybe people get vicarious fulfillment from contemplating someone else's gilded existence. Maybe supporting him for the Presidency is like being invited to join the Football Captain's clique.
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There's a difference between "preferential treatment" and cheating on exams. Most Americans, I think, know that.
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Quayle is the twin of Bush without the constant drinking and brain damage. You see, Quayle is a dim witted WASP ruling class silver spoon fed Little Lord Freakout who also avoided fighting for his beliefs (he LOVED the war just like Bush loved it!) and who got into schools gratis daddy.

And then this spoiled brat would prattle on about "hard work" and "pulling yourself up by your tennis sneakers" and so on and so on. Sick.
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Catburglar - 09:17 pm PST - Nov 13, 1999  - #265 of 345

But do they care, Beth? I don't think so.

Let me put it this way. John McCain is very right-wing: a McCain Administration would give the right everything a Junior Administration would give them. But McCain has genuine stature as a human being.

So why do so many people prefer Bush?

They prefer him even though they already know all of his achievements were handed to him, that he has never earned or accomplished anything at all without his family's connections.

It therefore follows, logically, that these are precisely the things they like about him.

If these are precisely the things they like about him, then more stories and more evidence of all the favors done him, all the things given him at others' expense -- including, yes, cheating on exams -- only give them more reason to like him.

Why this would be so can only be explained by vicarious thrill. Junior is the direct beneficiary of the wealthy-worship cultism that made "Dallas" and "Dynasty" the hottest shows on TV back in the 80's. He's JR for our times.
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It simply doesn't matter that "most" people know GW has been helped along the way, that he is an empty suit, and that, if elected, his unelected handlers, ala RR's kitchen cabinet, will run the country. What's important to keep in mind are those in the center who might just be seeking a perverse vengence on Clinton by supporting the son of the man Clinton beat. I've said this before and I believe it.

We know that Dems will not vote for GW, not even those Dems who were/are disgusted with Bill's personal behavior, and we know, too, the Repugs will vote for whomever their nominee is, trusting that he will rubber stamp the extremist agenda of the Repug congress. Therefore, it is the center that matters, as it always does, and the center is sick and tired of attack politics and may react with a backlash if Dems go to far with their exposes, even if those exposes are true. Recall, if you will, that Bill became more popular with every new charge made against him.

I hope I'm wrong but I fear I'm right. BTW, Nightline backed out of cosponsoring the upcoming Republican candidate's debate for unannounced reasons. I suspect it is the GW camp manipulating either the debates, which made Nightline wash its hands of the affair, or, less probable, pressure by the Bush camp that Nightline spare GW the embarassment of national coverage; better to leave the debate local.


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When Reagan ran on family values and religion, I knew insanity was walking in America.

The first divorced President who hates his kids and never went to church defeated a loving truly religious married man who never divorced and took care of even his drunk brother...this is a sign of the millennium.

Remember the AntiChrist is a person who is the exact opposite of what he says he is. Now we have "plenty smart" Bush who will "clean up the White House" and be our "moral leader".

The GOP is ADDICTED to these creatures. It is a sign.
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I'm very curious about why Nightline pulled out, too. I'm sure it must have something to do with the Bush camp trying to set up the debate so their candidate wouldn't be forced into answering too probing or difficult questions.
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karen lamb - 12:11 pm PST - Nov 14, 1999  - #269 of 345
The monkeys stand for honesty, giraffes are insincere

Jo Ann, any ideas how we could find out? I suppose they wouldn't tell us if we even could find the proper person to ask, but, you never know.
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The Antichrist will be personable, handsome, intelligent, clear-headed, calm and soft-spoken, the better to deceive those around him and conceal his evil designs. This description lets George W. Bush off the hook.

But just because somebody is NOT the Antichrist is no reason to vote for him. Most people aren't.

Actually when I was a little kid I also was fond of Dr. Seuss's "McElligott's Pool," which is an answer I could have given without getting much flack for it.
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'Fortunate Son' Bush is finding out how difficult life can be when people older than third-graders are asking the questions.
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Ferguson! Do you actually believe in the anti-christ, or are you doing another tongue in cheek? I am a true believer in religious freedom (except when someone tries to force their religious beliefs on me--NOT accusing you of doing this Ferg!!!), but I take exception to some of the more off-the-wall incindiary religious speakers who are trying to inflict Armeggedon (sp?) on us--in the national media no less.

Strangely enough for me, a committed human securalist, i.e., atheist, I re-read Revelations a few years ago. I hadn't had much exposure to Revelations since my Sunday School years, and not much then, since Revelations is a little way out to teach to young school age kids.

Well, I re-read it, with much distance from my religious upbringing, and I thought, "Whoever wrote this must have been up on drugs or something. This writer sounds like a 1960's LSD head--the kind that got out on street corners, esp. in San Fran and ended up brain-dead institutionalized."

That's really the impression I had--go read Revelations and see if you don't agree. I lived through the age of drugs, and fortunately was one of those who never 'did' them myself, but I witnessed first hand in this century, the drug influenced minds that could have produced the biblical book of Revelations...now.

The religious fanaticsm in this country at the moment scares me greatly. The way I'm seeing it is that the non-fanatics are offering much more sane views of where this country should go, but it is the religious fanatics who hold sway over the policies enacted.

I will not denegrate anyone's belief process, but we are entering the 21st century, with huge scientific advancements, and there are people out there who want to pull us back into the middle ages, not only in our religious beliefs, but in our efforts to contact and work with the other peoples of this Earth to benefit all of us. The United States is NOT an island. We are a part--and only a small part geographically--of the whole.
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William Froelich - 05:41 pm PST - Nov 14, 1999  - #273 of 345
The Cubs will get it done in double O one.

Jo Ann Simon, although I believe in God I am not all that keen on organized religion either. I, too, feel that the religious right poses the greatest danger to our society and government, more dangerous than China, North Korea, or Sadamm Hussein. As tragic as the losses might be, the United States could relatively quickly bounce back from a war with China, a nuclear attack from a rouge nation, or terriost attacks by the likes of Sadamm, but, once firmly entrenched in power, and with the legislation they support in place, it would take years and years and years to rid our nation of the so called Christian right. (I hate to even capitalize Christian when I use the word to refer to right wing wackoes.

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Jo Ann, what do you think? I am a scientist with my own rather peculiar beliefs in the nature of God. My opinion of the role Jesus had in the shape of the world of the last 1700 years is that his impact was so profound and positive that he is truly worthy of worship and so I consider myself a Christian, but for LOGICAL reasons, not from something as amorphous and untrustworthy as blind faith.

But it was only about 90% tongue in cheek. No, I do not believe in the Antichrist, but I do believe that there are people in the world who are inherently evil. Indeed, recently one became too much a part of my life for my comfort and wormed his way into my world by deceiving those closest to me (I had him pegged within a half-second of seeing him the first time).

Truly evil people never use drugs or drink, ever, but they may facilitate it for others. They need to stay sharp to do their work but prefer to have those around them at a disadvantage. They invariably look good because they attend closely to the details of appearance as it relates to persuasive effect. They always concern themselves with your sensitivities and speak softly, but their words damage your own self esteem in subtle ways that you may actually ascribe to others and not to their actual source. They strive, using cleverly concealed semantic tricks, to turn you against your friends and even your family while seeming to praise you and claiming not to understand why others are less understanding. They sap your strength and your resolve, and gain your psychological dependence for purposes of their own.

But the EASIEST and most reliable way to tell is right at the first meeting, the feeling the evil people impart to you at the initial encounter . You have to trust your own gut, and most people don't. You get a rush of cold, an aversion, almost a revulsion as if you have encountered a reptile in human disguise.

George W. Bush is not such a man but he is their willing tool. Steve Forbes IS such a man, as is Gary Bauer.

I know this sounds all hocus-pocusy, but to my way of thinking it's really quite real.
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Tom DeLay, Nelson Bunker Hunt, Richard Scaiffe or Mark Levin. It's one of them.
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Not DeLay. True evil is never that overt. It is ALWAYS more cleverly concealed.

DeLay's just a tool, and although I genuinely hate the guy's guts I do not think he is as willing a tool as is George W. Bush, but instead is a dupe. The others I do not know enough about their actual private personalities to comment.
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Elaine Supkis - 07:49 pm PST - Nov 14, 1999  - #277 of 345
Thrice I was struck by lightning while in a house. This is totally improbable and statistically incredible. Next: the impossible

If someone is TOO slick people are suspicious. Bush is evil for he PRETENDS to be trailer trash but he is born of the manor and has all the perogatives of such kind and he has the mercy of a lord who can execute the peasants at will.

The AntiChrist is DISGUISED. Reagan was a sort of antichrist. Unlike Carter, a man who is painfully religious and devout, Reagan didn't give a hoot. He did look spiffy in suits and pretended to befriend people who he didn't give one hoot about. Brady found this out when he appealed to his "best friend" after taking bullets intended for Reagan.

Reagan pretended he was dead and didn't talk at all. The Bradys are now Democrats, you know.

Bush fakes the "dumb hick" junk. To fool everyone. Just as his pretence to be a semi liberal democrat in NY is a pretence. Dangerous man.
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Ferguson Foont, regarding your post 274, where did you meet my Bircher cousin? Do you live in Illinois? I cannot believe the similarity between your description of an evil man and his behavior. It's uncanny. Are you a shrink?

I'm just totally, absolutely amazed.


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William, he was describing generic Birchers. I went to grade school across the street from the Arizona headquarters of the John Birch society. I decide by the time I was 11 that they were all Nazis.
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It's not just Birchers or even right wingers. Evil has no political allegiance and can take on the colors of any party.

It is more LIKELY to take on the colors of the right wing because that's where you find the unctuous, the crusaders, the disapproving, the judgmental. The ground is more fertile there for their evil seeds to sprout.
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But the EASIEST and most reliable way to tell is right at the first meeting, the feeling the evil people impart to you at the initial encounter . You have to trust your own gut, and most people don't. You get a rush of cold, an aversion, almost a revulsion as if you have encountered a reptile in human disguise.

Pat Robertson fills that bill nicely. And most of the people on the Republican side who were so earnestly smearing Clinton during those miserable excuses for committee hearings.

I literally cannot tolerate looking at the image of Robertson on the TV, nor Bauer, either. George W. Bush would have the same effect, if only he had more depth....
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Ferguson Foont - 11:02 am PST - Nov 15, 1999  - #282 of 345
Republicans whine and Republicans bitch: "Our rich are too poor, and our poor are too rich!"

Indeed Pat Robertson is one of those of whom I speak. His little Ralphie Reed is another, and Ralphie is actually a higher ranking officer the evil heirarchy, I believe.
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I meant to mention Ralphie, Robertson's little lapdog. Thank you for doing so.

I think I'll go take a shower now. A long, hot shower. Lots and lots of soap.
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Fergie and others,

I've always had instinctive, gut reactions when first meeting people, especially on a more than, "Hi, how are you?" basis of encountering someone at the post office, or taking a walk and encountering a not well known neighbor. I also 'sense' things about people, generally public figures, whom I've never met, but have seen on TV, that go to my gut and make me believe or disbelieve them regardless of their political persuasions.

I remember watching an interview with then Vice President Bush during the Iran-Contra uproar. I was then still an Independent, voting mostly Republican and not very politically active, and all I could think after watching that interview where VP Bush, snide and supercilious said, "I was out of the loop," was that you're an F'n liar Vice President Bush, and your body language tells me so.

Yes, I believe there are evil people out there, but I think it has more to do with their genes and deficient mental syntaxes than it has to do with any super-human power influencing them.

In all mammilian species, there are are some who don't behave like the rest--who are more vicious and violent, and others who are anti-social to their group. We don't consider those animals in modern times inflicted by an evil force. So why do we think humans COULD be inflicted by an evil force?

The evil in humankind (in the political sense) has usually been the result of ego, greed and the quest for power. Someone who desires power and wealth over all else, can and will justify a number of unethical behaviors as justification to reach their goals. I would put the Christian Right Superstars like Robertson, Dobson and Falwell in this catagory.

I would put Saddam Hussain and other merciless dictators in the same category, except that Saddam doesn't even try to mask his political goals (i.e. I will remain in power) in a religious veil. He is a Muslim and supports his Islamic religion, but never have I seen him using Islam to defend his agressive goals. Saddam is more likely to worship on the thrones of personal wealth and oil interests.

Which is the same throne on which GW and other pseudo religious fundamentalists worship on.

I respect other people's religious beliefs, even though I may disagree with them 100%, but I will never try to impose and force my non-religious beliefs on you. I'll only give you my arguments on the subject.
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RE: Evil -

My two cents:

1) My oldest brother the former Marine says that evil persons, whenever they attempt to be nice, always come off as condescending. It always sounds fake.

2) Ralph Reed reminds me forcibly of Satan's Son in The Omen movie series. (Remember the last one - where he became a Presidential advisor?) He always sends chills through my gut.

3) Evil people tend not to be competent people. (Ralph Reed being a big exception to this rule.) They are usually evil because they cannot or will not reason things out, and seek short cuts.

RE: Favorite Books -

Besides the Encyclopedia Britannica, my favorite books as a child were the Guinness Books of World Records. I didn't touch fiction until I was in junior high school.
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karen lamb - 06:38 pm PST - Nov 15, 1999  - #286 of 345
The monkeys stand for honesty, giraffes are insincere

I think he looks more like the one where the kid is a young teen and is busy polishing off the whole family, one at a time.
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It is not some "super-human power," Jo Ann. I do believe it is genetic because that explains the cold feeling. But the equation is actually fairly simple: Selfish + Cunning + Dishonesty + Cowardice = Evil.

Cowardice is in the mix because the main driving force behind all of this is a knowledge that you alone deserve power over others, so everyone is your adversary. This leads to desperation and the willingness to do whatever is necessary in the perception that you must protect yourself.

I disagree with TLB on only one point. Genuinely evil people tend to be quite competent except where it involves people and things outside their rather narrow momentary focus.
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This is a subject I have asked about any number of times.( asked mostly of myself)

Is it just my personal prejudice as favoring more Democrats than Republicans,??,,,but I often can just see and hear some politician or news commentator and feel they must be Republican BEFORE finding that they are .

There is something so repugnant about Senator Hatch and that guy from Florida McCullum I think the name, and Hyde and Fergason and DeLay and Barr and Oliver North, and Trent Lott, and JC Watt of Oklahoma, I could go and on.Not to mention Helms and that 100 year dirty old man S. Thurmond.

et.al, et.al.
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I don't think it's just you. I miss every now and then, but not often.
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Coulter, Babs Olson, Bork, Mark Braden and smarmy, condescending John Fund, Mike Emmick, Bob Bittman, Helms, Charles Bakalay, perhaps Gen.-I Flowers, Kathleen Wil. E Coyote...I find them even more dislikeable than smarmy, condescending Starr...

...and, talk about wearing Evil on their sleeves...the Goldbergs and Linda Tripp, Dickhead Morose...

...and a guy who has always given me the slimy, creepies(though maybe not evil), George Staphylococolus
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George S. is particularily horrid. He is like IAGO. See?
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Elaine Supkis - 10:02 pm PST - Nov 15, 1999  - #292 of 345
Thrice I was struck by lightning while in a house. This is totally improbable and statistically incredible. Next: the impossible

Shakespeare. Othello.
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Yeah, we got it, Elaine. But Iago isn't a simple traitor. He's the one who spoons dark lies into the suggestible King, and stays to watch the effects. Why that fits George S. is unknown to me.
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Tom DeLay and Dick Armey and Trent Lott all come thru as reptilian. (Apologies to all scaled creatures!!)
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Too bad Clinton and Gore are too gentlemanly to throw these back at the Bushbaby.

Mean, nasty George Bush Sr. can dish it out, but don't you dare do the same to him or Bar's puddin' head!
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Jeff Jacoby: Forget little questions; what's Bush's answer on the big one?

They have a link in the story to the Hiller interview. You have to go to Special Reports under the Site Map to find the Hiller instinct.

They also had this cartoon from the Palm Beach Post above the story.
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Why is it that everytime evil and competence come up in the same paragraph, I can't help but think of this?
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Bill, I was speaking of the young man who used to run the Christian Coalition. He is now serving the man who is sadly brain damaged, Gov. Bush. He whispers lies, yes, and he smiles to US while trying to get Al Gore stuck with the Hankie.
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Phoenix Woman - 09:05 am PST - Nov 16, 1999  - #299 of 345
"Incredibly, Mr. Nader has said that, if forced to choose, he would vote for Mr. Bush -- presumably as more likely to cause a backlash in the environment's favor." RFK Jr., environmental activist, 08/10/00 NYT

Ralph Reed has been part of Shrub's entourage for many years. He was the one who got Pat Robertson on board, at the cost of many of the Christian Coalition's staunchest followers and staffers.
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Actually, Phoenix Woman, Ralph Reed joined Bush only a little over a year ago at Robertson's urging. Initially he was slated to become Bush's overall campaign manager. I don't know what happened to that.
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Interesting, Mr. F.

I'd heard it was t'other way round, but that's alright.

Either way, I expect that when Reed/Robertson bolt from the Shrub, then this will be the obese gentlewoman commencing her aria.
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Will the singing lady expire like in Traviata? I love the opera.

Or will it be Dolly Parson singing "Run Away from My Man"?
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BUSH: CAN YOU GIVE ME THAT AGAIN, IN ENGLISH?

A long AP post from another thread, on the education of George W taking place in crash sessions....funny, and the scariest news I've yet heard.
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Early in the campaign, he stumbled into a young man who asked a question about, soil conservation, Shrub said; he did not know much about it - a governor - does not know much about soil conservation - astounding IMO - and it went downhill from their - next came the 5th grader stump question.

"I'm plenty smart" - you are all stupid for asking all the wrong questions.
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Phoenix Woman - 05:43 am PST - Nov 17, 1999  - #305 of 345
"Incredibly, Mr. Nader has said that, if forced to choose, he would vote for Mr. Bush -- presumably as more likely to cause a backlash in the environment's favor." RFK Jr., environmental activist, 08/10/00 NYT

Boy George is no Texas Ranger

By David Nyhan, Globe Columnist, 11/12/99

When Boston newscaster Andy Hiller popped his match-the-country-to-its-foreign-leader quickie quiz, and George W. Bush flunked, there was a lot of eye-rolling and gum-flapping about how fair it was.

Cheap shot, ambush, gotcha-game were some of the terms tossed about by pundits who take themselves utterly seriously...

Bill Bradley, apparently, was too cagey to take the cheese when Hiller tried the same gambit on him. In the last election, Lamar Alexander stepped on his necktie when he was stumped by a questioner who challenged him to cough up the price of a quart of milk and a loaf of bread.

I give Hiller credit for a good gimmick. Any campaigning politician is fair game for any question within bounds of propriety. Learning to turn aside a potential stumper is basic training for any tyro politician. The reason Hiller's cheeky challenge has resonated through the pundit world is that it lifts the veil on a very basic question about the front-runner - the man most likely to be our next president, if you believe the polls.

The question about Bush: Is this guy really a dope, or what?

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I really would rather not have a president who has to take a course every time a decision has to be made.
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Was this posted before? The rest of the "gotcha" interview:

<www.nationalpost.com/commentary.asp?f=991112/125690.html%20>
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cheri, hoot!
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Shrub on 20/20 tonight(I believe). Hmmmm...I wonder how much this will be a case of an "own'em" interview.
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Elaine Supkis - 09:28 pm PST - Nov 17, 1999  - #310 of 345
Thrice I was struck by lightning while in a house. This is totally improbable and statistically incredible. Next: the impossible

The Mickey Mouse Channel just had him on for a cream puff interview with a certain man who has the world's ugliest toupee collection.

He sat like a little boy, legs splayed open, crouched on a thing in a barn of all places, pretending to be a cowboy. All he needed was a cute hat and some knickers.

My goodness, he is so childish. His face shows little sign of time since he spent so much unconscious, I would dare say. Do we need poorly enunciating children to be President? His speech is dreadful considering he was raised here in Mass. and Conn.!
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The accent is all phony, just like he is. The interview was totally nauseating.
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I can't help but think this is payback for Drudge teeing off on the Shrub.

The excuse FOX is using certainly doesn't hold water. (FOX objecting to a misleadingly-used photo is like Newt Gingrich chiding Clinton for adultery.)

<my.netscape.com/news/Entertainment/11_17_1999.reuvf-story-bctelevisiondrudge.html>
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He looked like a puppy. This will make me ill. At least DeGaulle looked like a MAN. His eyes could look right into you and leave you stunned.

Bush peers at people with a "I hope I am fooling him" look of an eager salesman.
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I hate Fox Fux & Sux - but there is a limit to their reich-wing lunacy. There is the old story of Dateline NBC rigging the GMC pickup to explode for the dramatic effect of enhancing and exaggerating their story - they had to apologize a few times publicly to stop the GM lawsuit. Drudge is an emotional basket-case, irrational, un-polished, un-professional - and his attempted fraud was even more than Fox could deal with. So, the ignorant jerk that he is, totally lacking anything representing journalism, throws his sissy, hissey fit. He still has his job with the cartoon company ABC - there's always room with Cokie and Sam - and NBC, he could be a V.P.

And Sludge ain't had a good sleazy leak since Gerth and the NYT lost all credibility.
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Elaine Supkis - 06:25 am PST - Nov 18, 1999  - #315 of 345
Thrice I was struck by lightning while in a house. This is totally improbable and statistically incredible. Next: the impossible

The GOPers used Drudge as a tool to get the President. When Drudge didn't fall into the "Bush is great" program they are now going to destroy the puppy and bon appetit!
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Kinda like leaving Linda Tripe high and dry - not even contributing to her legal defense fund,,,,aaaahhhhhhh.
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He's on CNN right now with Candy Crowley as we speak. He's talking about race and other softball questions.
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How interesting. The Cheap Shot from the brat didn't seem to hurt him at all.
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What cheap shot?

Nothing comes cheap when it comes to Bush.
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My theory about Drudge: his ratings were falling, he saw the writing on the wall. If he didn't do something he'd have to suffer the humiliation of being cancelled. So, what does he do? Create an artificial scandal that makes him look principled and boosts his staying power at least a little bit longer.

Of course, I may be giving him to much credit in the media-savvy department.
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And one that makes Fox look moderate and like an actual news organization.

I think the whole thing was a setup from both parties. I think he worked it out in advance with the network.
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tedzep - 02:34 am PST - Nov 19, 1999  - #323 of 345
¿President? Bush

One morning several weeks ago , Drudge was on C-SPAN with Kinsley. Drudge was so proud that his web-site breaking the Lewinsky story was listed in some column as one of the ten biggest milestones in communications history, along with Guttenberg's Printing Press, and the first telegraph transmitted.

Hahahahahahahaha

It was nice while it lasted, Fudge...
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"Nuance; a word I'm just learning" he is a "Fall Flower", a late bloomer, I hope he falls the right way. They didn't have any of them nuance things in Texas politics - <www.nytimes.com/library/politics/camp/111999wh-gop-bush.html> scarry - frightening stupidity. And the worst part is; he is a passive particpant in the planning and the speech writing - he's a robot - like an old computer - he's got to be programmed - 5th graders questions - they ain't in there.
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"Nuance" in Texas means figuring out if one should use a gun or a knife to kill.
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Chris Andersen - 11:45pm Nov 18, 1999 PST (# 320 of 325)

My theory about Drudge: his ratings were falling, he saw the writing on the wall. If he didn't do something he'd have to suffer the humiliation of being cancelled. So, what does he do? Create an artificial scandal that makes him look principled and boosts his staying power at least a little bit longer.

Bill Zettler - 11:55pm Nov 18, 1999 PST (# 321 of 325)

And one that makes Fox look moderate and like an actual news organization.

I think the whole thing was a setup from both parties. I think he worked it out in advance with the network.

The only way it could be shown not to be a work on both parties' parts would be if Drudge did carry out his threat to sue FOX.

But I do think that FOX, if not Drudge, was definitely looking for a way out of the contract. The man was a ticking time bomb who sooner or later was going to get sued for libel again.
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Elaine Supkis 11/19/99 6:32am

Don't leave out hammer!!

Remember the Texan who committed suicide with a hammer? Now that was truly the dictionary picture of "nuance", neh?
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Ferguson Foont - 11:59 am PST - Nov 19, 1999  - #328 of 345
Republicans whine and Republicans bitch: "Our rich are too poor, and our poor are too rich!"

Nuance. That's what you get when mommy and daddy remarry, right? Nuuncles, too.
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Shrub's foreign policy speech--Cold War Redux, starring the People's Republic of China as the Red menace to justify US aggressive policies abroad...
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Repugs need a bogeyman to justify increasing military spending and GW is handing them the evil Chinese on a platter. Instead of a foreign policy address focusing on peace, he gave one calculated to draw the support of paranoids, of which the repug party has always had its share.

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Might backfire. I don't think the American public is all that eager for a Cold War II, even against the Yellow Peril.

Maybe even especially against the Yellow Peril. Both major political parties have gone to a lot of trouble over the years to portray China as a valuable economic asset: all those billion+ people! All with money to spend! All those cheap consumer items they import to us! (Quick: how many articles of clothing, electric appliances, and tchotchkes you have around the house were Made In China? Quite a few, I'll bet.)

Russia/the Soviet Union was not, and is not, an economic asset. We never had much trade with them, other than wheat. So no one cared about preserving a trade relationship with them; there wasn't one to preserve.

This is where capitalism comes in handy. Whatever our failings, we would much rather buy stuff from, and sell stuff to, someone than plot to blow them up.
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Right after Tienneman Square and Bush's public excoriation of China, didn't someone, like his brother Prescott Jr., go over there and have pow-wows with some of Industry Heads?
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Why should a little blood-letting get in the way of a good business deal?
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Elaine Supkis - 05:46 am PST - Nov 20, 1999  - #334 of 345
Thrice I was struck by lightning while in a house. This is totally improbable and statistically incredible. Next: the impossible

The Bush's love the Chinese but the Chinese gave to Clinton. The Japanese hated Bush but Clinton was nastier so Sony gave Bush Sr several million bucks in stock options two years ago.

So the Bushes are now pushing Tokyo's foreign policy plan. The Japanese are terrified of Chinese military potential and they want us to fight China for them. You see, China wants to take revenge eventually for WWII (DO NOT DOUBT ME ON THIS) and Japan wants to control China (DO NOT DOUBT ME) and we need to be friendly with BOTH.

So having foreign entities purchasing our Presidents when they retire is really really dangerous!
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A Korean business woman told me recently; it is the Japanese that none of the Asians trusted or liked - the Chinese were o.k.
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Here's a clue for the apparently clueless: The Chinese also contributed to Dole's campaign in 1996 and to Republican congressional campaigns in '96 and '98.
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(DO NOT DOUBT THE CLUELESS ON THIS)
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The Japanese wait until you leave office to give bonuses.

Will America wake up in time??? We will see!
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Shrub has dispatched a CIA operative to Belgrade to find out who this woman Clinton is meeting; Sophia. The agent is currently in Chile, having used a CIA map.
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Tina Kramer - 11:39 pm PST - Nov 22, 1999  - #340 of 345
Put Marvin Miller in the Baseball Hall of Fame.

This is from U.S. News and World Report. It's in "Washington Whispers

Genius night

Friends say George W. Bush is surprised and hurt that he is developing the image of an airhead, largely because of his failure in a reporter's foreign-policy pop quiz. Bush has reacted by whining to allies that he's not getting credit for his achievements as governor of Texas and that critics are ignoring his street smarts. Shucks, just last week he was invited to headline an Iowa Cub Scout "Genius Night."
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USN&WR are among that small (but growing) group of Republicans that realize just how dangerous GW Houseplant is to the GOP.

Meanwhile, from one of my e-mail buddies, the Dumbya News for 11/23:November 23, 1999

Doubts About W

At a recent campaign event, GOP cue card candidate George W. Bush told his audience, "The first question is: Does ol' George W. mean what he's saying? If there's any doubt in your mind or the voters' minds that I'm just up here talking, you shouldn't vote for me." [Houston Chronicle, 11/23/99]

What are some doubts voters have about George W.?

Voters Doubt Bush's Commitment to HMO Reform: